Neutrinos caught speeding at CERN??

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

We already know what happens when engineers dabble in "science", they come with nonsense such as the Electric Sun model.

Regards

Steven

PS Apologies to all sound minded engineers out there.

They need to be sedated

And have their computers taken away from them

[bojan]

Originally Posted by renormalised

Probably the case, hey Steven. Leave the science to engineers and you end up with lots of egg on the face

And one big stuff up

Should sack the lot of them

Here, here, Carl... I am an engineer and I am not caught throwing eggs around .. (yet)

[CraigS]

Goodness me !

Another tirade !
I'd almost feel lost thesedays without one !

I think I might go and have another ultraviolet catastrophe !

Ah well … better to be caught throwin' a few eggs around … than to be a rotten one!


Cheers

[CraigS]

Meanwhile, back to business … here's an independent review of the OPERA statistical analysis, (hot off the press … dated 25th Sept).

This, at least gives and independent perspective on the question of statistical validity. (This guy's an Aussie PhD from Melbourne).

Cheers

[bojan]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Goodness me !

Another tirade !

It's not a tirade.. it is referring to OT issue.

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by bojan

It's not a tirade.. it is referring to OT issue.

OT ?? Which one ? What issue ?

Cheers

[bojan]

I am out of here.

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by bojan

I am out of here.

If anyone would like me to return to the QM vs Classical thread to demonstrate what now appears to be a gross misunderstanding of where I was coming from .. and a similar gross misunderstanding of why I left it, then I would be happy to do so .. I will do so anyway.

The 'UV Catastrophe' can simply be viewed as an historical artefact, often used to re-inforce the perception of a fundamental differentiating factor between QM over Classical. Returning to the perspective I adopted in that thread, would seem to be of interest ?

Cheers

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Meanwhile, back to business … here's an independent review of the OPERA statistical analysis, (hot off the press … dated 25th Sept).

This, at least gives and independent perspective on the question of statistical validity. (This guy's an Aussie PhD from Melbourne).

Cheers

That was a good read. I can concur with his assessment of his eyes...I'm 45 and my eyes aren't as good as they used to be

Seriously though, that was a good read and explained his and Palmer's positions quite well. I totally agree with the conclusions. I'll have another read of it later.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Goodness me !

Another tirade !
I'd almost feel lost thesedays without one !

I think I might go and have another ultraviolet catastrophe !

Ah well … better to be caught throwin' a few eggs around … than to be a rotten one!


Cheers

No...no tirade, just a statement of fact concerning engineers

Steven and I have it completely correct

Well, if you're going to have one of them, make sure you've got a lot of good sunblock....don't want to get burnt in the process

How do you know if one of those eggs you guys throw isn't rotten already

[CraigS]

Gotta love Jim Al-Khalili !!

Everytime this guy pops up, I like what he has to say.

This time he says:

"So let me put my money where my mouth is: if the Cern experiment proves to be correct and neutrinos have broken the speed of light, I will eat my boxer shorts on live TV."

Let us be clear: it would be a tremendously exciting time for physics, and a daunting one for physicists, but it is not going to change the price of milk.

Ain't that just the coolest ?

True commitment, right there !

Cheers

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Gotta love Jim Al-Khalili !!

Everytime this guy pops up, I like what he has to say.

This time he says:


Ain't that just the coolest ?

True commitment, right there !

Cheers

He will be eating his boxer shorts and most theoretical physicists will be having kittens.

Regards

Steven

[xelasnave]

From the same article..........

If an effect can precede a cause, showers of neutrinos might arrive here on Earth before a supernova actually kicks off on the other side of the galaxy.

Although covered earlier this is the corrolation via observation needed.

No comments upon the time travel speculation in the article

alex

[renormalised (Carl)]

...but it is not going to change the price of milk.

But does he actually know that, for sure??!!!

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

He will be eating his boxer shorts and most theoretical physicists will be having kittens.

Regards

Steven

Might mail him a large bottle of tabasco sauce, just to spice things up

[Steffen]

Everybody knows that the price of milk is directly proportional to the speed of neutrinos, why is this being rehashed all the time? People should expend their energy on establishing what the price of fuel is proportional to…

Cheers
Steffen.

[CraigS]

Gee Steffan …

Cliches are part of being a 'daggy' scientist !
Jim's already put his boxer shorts on the line ! What more can one ask for ?

Oh well … I suppose there's always a critic somewhere .. I dunno ..


Cheers

[Suzy]

Here's an article quoting different physicists on what they think of this. Lawrence Krauss included.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...=ftl-neutrinos

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by Suzy

Here's an article quoting different physicists on what they think of this. Lawrence Krauss included.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...=ftl-neutrinos

Gee Krauss is pretty critical of it all !!
Mind you, I agree with what he's said … the way it has been announced is very risky for all the players involved.

Maybe Krauss is just jealous ?


I still prefer Jim Al Khalili's putting his boxer shorts on the line !
That one still takes the cake !

Cheers

[CraigS]

Krauss has written a short article explaining his reasons behind his comments:

CERN and colliding theories

A dramatic claim from a distinguished laboratory that turns out to be false reinforces the notion that somehow science is not to be trusted, that one can dismiss theories one finds inconvenient, even those whose predictions do agree with observations. This particular claim also reinforces the notion that scientific revolutions sweep away all that went before them. This is not how science progresses. Results that have withstood the test of experiment will continue to remain valid, no matter how physical theory evolves.
…
What is inappropriate, however, is the publicity fanfare coming before the paper has even been examined by referees. Too often today, science is done by news release rather than waiting for refereed publication. Because a significant fraction of experimental results ultimately never get published or are not later confirmed, providing unfiltered results to a largely untutored public is irresponsible.

The CERN result may indeed herald something new and remarkable. But if the overwhelming suspicions that greeted it are true instead, then the public presentation is unfortunate and misleading.

So, with those words, Krauss has gone up (in my estimation) of public science presenters.

Its good to see that he recognises the very real risks of poorly managed media announcements, and the precariously balanced position of the image of science in the minds of the public.

What's more, he's also shown that he's prepared to demonstrate his own regard for responsibility, by taking the time to clearly explain his own comments .. all entirely supportable from the perspective of the scientific process … (which is more than can be claimed by certain other popular science presenters … )

Good on him.

So, far Khalili and Krauss have demonstrated leadership skills, and not simply a desire for ratings and self-image consciousness.

Cheers