Osama Bin Laden dead

[blindman]

So, you REALLY believe in all those articles in media???
OMG !
Clear skies !

[Terry B]

I'm not going to bother reading all of this thread but just want to bring to attention that I have received a dodgy link on facebook that was probably sent by a bot to "Osama Bin Laden execution video"
Just be warned I suppose.

[mr bruess]

has osama gone to heaven or hell?

[Brian W (Brian)]

Originally Posted by mr bruess

has osama gone to heaven or hell?

That is absolutely unknowable. Perhaps a better way to phrase such a question would be

are there any religions which promote a heaven and hell that would place him in heaven

Brian

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by Brian W

That is absolutely unknowable. Perhaps a better way to phrase such a question would be

are there any religions which promote a heaven and hell that would place him in heaven

Brian

Very many. Resistance to an overwhelming corrupt external influence makes him a martre, no dought.

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

They'll have to change the lyrics now from "Osama got run over by a reindeer" to "Osama got run over by a seal team"

[KenNo2658 (Ken)]

Originally Posted by mr bruess

has osama gone to heaven or hell?

Dunno! It probably depends on whether he is right or all the people opposed to him are right.

All I know is that it seems like almost every conflict our society has experienced recently has been caused by some belief system trying to impose its belief's upon other cultures. For crying out loud, we have even had supposedly Christian followers killing each other in the name of their religion!!

Why?!??!! If you are right, eventually everyone will come to agree with you, or at the very least, you will be able to stand back and say "I told you so!" as you watch them all marched into hell.

But no! Being right is not enough! Our people all seem to need everyone else to conform to their belief's to be acceptable in society. What a poor statement of the human race this is!

If you are being repressed and downtrodden, fair enough! Fight for the form of freedom you want, but don't try to force everyone else to believe as you do! And do NOT kill innocents to achieve your aims!

Please note that I am not pointing a finger anywhere. Unfortunately, almost every belief system in the world is guilty of this, including Australia's, as much as I would like to believe otherwise.

Sorry to preach, especially since my own belief's would probably not be accepted here,

Ken

[Brian W (Brian)]

Ken, what you have noted is regrettably very true. The effect is , for lack of a better term, 'the us versus them syndrome'. it is not only to be found in religion. Sports, nations, clubs, brand of beer you drink all depend upon this syndrome.

Have you ever noticed that once you buy a car you start to notice how many of 'your' type of car there are?

Anything that is based upon us versus them has the potential for violence.

Brian

[bojan]

Originally Posted by Brian W

Ken, what you have noted is regrettably very true. The effect is , for lack of a better term, 'the us versus them syndrome'. it is not only to be found in religion. Sports, nations, clubs, brand of beer you drink all depend upon this syndrome.

Have you ever noticed that once you buy a car you start to notice how many of 'your' type of car there are?

Anything that is based upon us versus them has the potential for violence.

Brian

Well, this is a basic human instinct - we evolved as pack animals.
And this being a fact, the only thing we can do is to channelise this behaviour somehow - globalisation (universal dependency of everyone on anyone) is (unfortunately for some) one of the current options.
Another one may be the building of World Empire... Which one do you prefer ?

[multiweb (Marc)]

I hear US this, US that... Tapping away on a keyboard, voicing my opinions freely, on the (US) internet using a US produced operating system on a US design based computer? It comes down to freedom really? And it comes at a price.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by bojan

(universal dependency of everyone on anyone)

This is the one thing that is rarely understood we are all dependant on everyone else everything we buy and do has in some way been made possible by the actions of someone else

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Well, this is a basic human instinct - we evolved as pack animals.
And this being a fact, the only thing we can do is to channelise this behaviour somehow

This brings to mind a quote made by the late, great, Katherine Hepburn in the movie The African Queen.....
"Human nature, is what we are put on this Earth to rise above".

[bojan]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

This brings to mind a quote made by the late, great, Katherine Hepburn in the movie The African Queen.....
"Human nature, is what we are put on this Earth to rise above".

Yes..
And it will be a very, very long and bloody process ...

[bojan]

Originally Posted by multiweb

I hear US this, US that... Tapping away on a keyboard, voicing my opinions freely, on the (US) internet using a US produced operating system on a US design based computer? It comes down to freedom really? And it comes at a price.

Mark,
don't forget that US is a migrant country, just as Australia is.. and it's citizens came from all over the world (just like you and me came here more or less recently).
But US government (establishment) has some very serious policy issues and attitudes.. and we are yet to see any improvement it that department.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Mark,
don't forget that US is a migrant country, just as Australia is.. and it's citizens came from all over the world (just like you and me came here more or less recently).
But US government has some very serious policy issues and attitudes.. and we are yet to see any improvement it that department.

Yes and if you go far enough we all come from the same melting pot in the craddle of civilisation somewhere in the middle east. The system is not perfect but we all enjoy our freedom because of the US. Our way of life is what it is because they have played and still play a big part in it. You guys are aware that the Bin Laden family is loaded right? They mostly reside in the US although they're from saudi arabia. They don't mind the lifestyle.

[bojan]

Originally Posted by multiweb

You guys are aware that the Bin Laden family is loaded right? They mostly reside in the US although they're from saudi arabia. They don't mind the lifestyle.

And they are all good (business and otherwise) friends with Bush family..

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by bojan

And they are all good (business and otherwise) friends with Bush family..

Absolutely. And there's a bit of history in there too... Bottom line is that terrorism is a by product of money. Bin Laden financed it with mum and dad's money. It's not going to disappear but somebody needed to make a stand and the US did. Good on them. Bin Laden death is symbolic. Is it effective? 10 yrs later with all the intel and resources allocated to find him? Probably not. It's a clear message though.

[bojan]

Originally Posted by multiweb

...but we all enjoy our freedom because of the US.

I wouldn't place so narrow a statement here..
Obtaining today's freedom (what is it, actually?) was a process involving many sides and factors.
Even USSR contributed in some way (yes, don't be horrified with this statement..)
USSR was a good example of how some things should NOT be.. but on the other hand, the threat from communism (being a real thing or not) to the west forced them to allow for many freedoms which would otherwise not be there (union movement etcetera)
The most recent (bad) examples (when there is no threat from Chinese Government) are situation in Apple's factories in Senzen (10 suicides in the last year, almost slave-position of local workers who work 12 hours or more for a fraction of pay compared to US workers.. This "business model" also came from US and you simply can't put it in the "basket of freedoms".

[Brian W (Brian)]

Mark, your analysis is a wee bit shallow, the computer you label made in America has parts from China, Japan, Taiwan and who knows where it was assembled.

The American economy is kept afloat lately by loans from other governments and institutions with the biggest loaner being China.

We are an interconnected world. Hey, my breakfast about half of the time is Australia Harvest Oat Bran ( I love the spoons).

In my not very humble opinion humanities major problem for the 21st century will be how to direct our expansionist needs into areas that will not destroy us.

Always in the past humanity has been able to pick up and move when things became too oppressive. Was the new territory already occupied? didn't matter as long as our weapons were superior.

Nowadays, the heathens and savages have the same weapons that the oppressors do and as the Vikings learned in what was to become Canada, without better weapons or overpowering force you loose to the indigenous population.

Your belief that freedom comes at a cost is absolutely correct. The question is... who pays? Your free society is at least partly built upon destruction of the Aboriginal culture. Canada and American freedom is built, again at least partly on the destruction of the native culture.

As I type this I am listening to a military gunship on its way to do battle with people fighting for their freedom.

Maybe it is time to put the emphasis on responsibility rather than freedom.

Brian

[multiweb (Marc)]

Well from where I stand we all owe them a great deal. It's all in recorded history. Sure nothing's perfect and there will always be corruption BUT and that's a big BUT, I still have choices as an individual. Lot of people need to take a few steps back, have a hard look at everything in everyday life that they take for granted. Freedom being the first.

PS: Not even going to go there Brian.... deep breath