Solar cost to rival coal in 10 years - Page 5

CraigS · #81 17-03-2011, 04:01 PM

Ron;

Whats the bet than once Japan gets over the present problems there, they go ahead and rebuild the Nuclear plants ?

Why do you think they might do that ?

Answer: They have no other choice !

For them, this is about long term survival of their entire country. Nuclear has fed and clothed them for countless years. The price has just gone up a little.

They are unfortunate in their geographic location, and their natural resource depleted state, and there is no other alternative for them. Same as the people who have no choice other than wood-burning fires in Africa !

Its easy for us to look at the world thru the rose coloured glasses which we are fortunate enough to posses. There are countless others, who have no such luxuries.

How dare we tell them how to live their lives based on our biased perspectives !

We need to get very realistic about this. This is not a hypothetical issue for millions.

renormalised (Carl) · #82 17-03-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

That is a situation that is easily Fixed, better mining practices,

But that won't negate the problems....they still have accidents even in the mines with the best practices. Mining coal is inherently dangerous...coal dust itself is highly combustible, let alone any gas that is present.

astroron (Ron) · #83 17-03-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

Speaking of which, apparently there are 25000 road accidents in Iran each year....the worst in the world!!!. They should ban cars

Education is the answer here

Originally Posted by GrampianStars http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/....s/viewpost.gif
An estimated 100,000 killed every year globally on the roads....
and no body bats an eyelid to that http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/....ies/screwy.gif

Governments Spend Billions of Dollars trying to combat this

To say no one bats an eyelid is Plain WRONG, ask the grieving relitives, and policmen and ambulance people who have to clean up the mess

And all the taxes that you incure to try to eleviate this menace
This has nothing to do with the generation of power

astroron (Ron) · #84 17-03-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

But that won't negate the problems....they still have accidents even in the mines with the best practices. Mining coal is inherently dangerous...coal dust itself is highly combustible, let alone any gas that is present.

Which comes back to the tenet of this thread

develop cleaner forms of energy and then we we wont need to put people through those situations

But Pigs might fly I hear you say

renormalised (Carl) · #85 17-03-2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

Which comes back to the tenet of this thread

develop cleaner forms of energy and then we we wont need to put people through those situations

But Pigs might fly I hear you say

Well, they do if the coal dust goes off

astroron (Ron) · #86 17-03-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigS

Ron;

Whats the bet than once Japan gets over the present problems there, they go ahead and rebuild the Nuclear plants ?

Why do you think they might do that ?

Answer: They have no other choice !

For them, this is about long term survival of their entire country. Nuclear has fed and clothed them for countless years. The price has just gone up a little.

They are unfortunate in their geographic location, and their natural resource depleted state, and there is no other alternative for them. Same as the people who have no choice other than wood-burning fires in Africa !

Its easy for us to look at the world thru the rose coloured glasses which we are fortunate enough to posses. There are countless others, who have no such luxuries.

How dare we tell them how to live their lives based on our biased perspectives !

We need to get very realistic about this. This is not a hypothetical issue for millions.

That Japan went down the Nuclear road with the great assistance of Uncle Sam,They now have to live with these possible time bombs sitting on their doorsteps

We will see if the people of Japan will be so quick to build Nuclear power plants on their door steps after this

As for Rose Coloured Glasses, If you see someone going in the wrong direction, don't you try to steer them in the right direction

Coming back home

As I have said elsewhere I don't think we will in Australia have Nuclear power any time soon

Cheers

astroron (Ron) · #87 17-03-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

Well, they do if the coal dust goes off

But if the nuclear power station goes Bang the bacon will already be cooked when it lands.

Cheers

renormalised (Carl) · #88 17-03-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

But if the nuclear power station goes Bang the bacon will already be cooked when it lands.

Cheers

Microwaved

MrB (Simon) · #89 17-03-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrampianStars

Completely amazing On average 75K of raw material + 7.5Kw energy to make (1 x100g) phone!
Not trivial

indead

Interesting.. that can be done with any product and I still think it hardly figures overall when compared to pretty much everything else. It's a drop in the ocean.
Out of interest, what are the figures for manufacturing a solar panel... or wind turbine... or micro-hydro system? (yes I realise that eventually these 'pay-back' the energy used to manufacture them)
Some of my solar and all my wind is made from salvaged parts, re-purposed and saved from the scrap-heap.

astroron (Ron) · #90 17-03-2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

Microwaved

Agreed

GrampianStars (Rob) · #91 17-03-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

Education is the answer here

Originally Posted by GrampianStars http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/....s/viewpost.gif
An estimated 100,000 killed every year globally on the roads....
and no body bats an eyelid to that http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/....ies/screwy.gif

Governments Spend Billions of Dollars trying to combat this

.....
This has nothing to do with the generation of power

Ah. Ron
In a basic sense: Car to death ratio via petrol, oil, steel, aluminum, plastic, adhesive, rubber, iron, nylon, felt, cardboard, wires, glass etc.
Heaps of ENERGY (POWER) consumption to manufacture each car!
Which by the way is fully subsidised in Australia by our taxes

So IMO should go off shore immediately!
However cars generate another multi million dollar revenue stream via duty taxes,tolls and fines for the governments.

bobson (Bob) · #92 17-03-2011, 05:28 PM

Using sea waves:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/s...ds/8564662.stm

Not to mention Philip Island time/tides or similar around Australia. And some in WA that are natures gifts to man to use it for elec. power making.

bob

jenchris (Jennifer) · #93 17-03-2011, 05:57 PM

Did anyonesee that new inventors with the new generation solar panel?

Actually a paint on system - pay back period without Gov Subsidy was 2 years.

Invented by a southern University - bought by Victorian Government and being worked on.

If we had sufficient roof space painted with this, EVERYONE would feed into the grid and there'd be enough power for driving electric buses as well.

Everyone works on the principle that nothing new will be invented. It's just so much rubbish.
When I was 17 I got my first car - 15-18mpg - 3 litres - I now have a car with more BHP which is 2 litres and I get 7 litres per 100k - about 40 mpg.
Progress of a sort - had we partaken of the Geneva Wheel engine, we'd probably be getting a whole different power to weight ratio.
No one wants to sell us efficient stuff - there's no profit in it.
It's only when we get to the crunch that "Suddenly" this stuff is invented.

casstony · #94 17-03-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigS

How dare we tell them how to live their lives based on our biased perspectives !
.

We could demand that they shut down all their old, dangerous power stations and build newer, safer ones - it's our air/water too if they dump radiation into the atmosphere.

From general reading I've done there are proven nuclear power technologies that are much safer than is currently being used. But how about we give solar a go anyway - get as much as we can from the Sun.

p.s. I'm not forgetting the suffering inflicted by the tsunami, but we can consider more than one issue at a time.

bobson (Bob) · #95 17-03-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

jenchris
No one wants to sell us efficient stuff - there's no profit in it.
It's only when we get to the crunch that "Suddenly" this stuff is invented.

So true. I witnessed a few great inventions in my life.

Sadly they just disappeared probably cos they are not profitable.

Jules76 (Julian) · #96 17-03-2011, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobson

Using sea waves:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/s...ds/8564662.stm

Not to mention Philip Island time/tides or similar around Australia. And some in WA that are natures gifts to man to use it for elec. power making.

bob

Already being done at Garden Island, WA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CETO_Wave_Power

More information here:

http://www.carnegiecorp.com.au/index...s/perthproject

Interesting technology. It has a dual function in that not only does it create electricity, but it can also pump seawater to a desalination plant at zero cost, replacing a traditional powered pump. Of course the desalination process itself consumes a lot of energy but at least it's something.

Louwai (Bryan) · #97 17-03-2011, 10:14 PM

I have had a quick scan thruough the thread & I can't see where anyone has discussed the current Solar Generation plans being under taken by the Australian Gov.

My company is currently involved in the design & possible construction of a solar generation power system in Qld.
Here is the web site for the project.
http://www.solarflairproject.com.au/2010/

To put it simply;
It does not use PV panels, it uses concave mirrors to intensify the sun's heat onto a pipe which is carrying "oil". The high temp oil then heats water into steam which turns the turbine.

In addition there is an underground "tank" which contains a substance that is also heated by the hot oil via a heat exchange system. This substance stores the heat & then after the sun goes down the stored heat is used to keep heating the oil. The heat storage substance is able to continue heating the oil for another 3hrs after the sun is gone. Enough to generate through the evening peak period.

The design will produce 150mw from 1.5hrs after dawn through to 3hrs after sundown. The mirror array covers approx 30 hectares.

FlashDrive (Poppy) · #98 17-03-2011, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenchris

No one wants to sell us efficient stuff - there's no profit in it.
It's only when we get to the crunch that "Suddenly" this stuff is invented.

Isn't that the Truth...... Well said.

bojan · #99 17-03-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louwai

The design will produce 150mw from 1.5hrs after dawn through to 3hrs after sundown. The mirror array covers approx 30 hectares.

What will be the efficiency of the system?

Louwai (Bryan) · #**100** 17-03-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bojan

What will be the efficiency of the system?

Don't know. I'm not involved with the project. Idon't know the details.
Have a look through the web site. If it's not there list out your questions & I can ask the project Mgr that's looking after the project within our office.