Time to emigrate....

[avandonk]

If you reckon a green laser can get you into trouble, just ask Dr Haneef about a certain SIM card.

If they want to screw you they will, and can. Bi*ching about it is futile!

Bert

[gbeal]

Oh Christ, and I was looking to come to your place if this welfare minded government got in for another term at the end of the year. I only read the first page, but from the sound of it, Oz isn't much better than Godzone. What do I do now?

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

Guys, get a grip of reality. How many of you actually NEED one of these gadgets. You have IMHO all fallen for the media hype that caused this legislative nonsense in the first place. I don't think we are going to see brownshirts marching down the street anytime soon because of a kneejerk reaction by politicians, the police (who you would be in Deep S**t without) are not going to raid your star party, and no doubt the "journalists" (I use the term in its loosest sense) will find another teacup to make a storm in next week. I thought this was a forum for sensible people

Bill

[Harb]

I haven't been on here for a while, but what peter is saying is the only sense I can see in this whole debate.......cut all the legal crap and deal with the facts, its not the device, its the user.
To much of this sort of stuff goes on, lets grow up and punish the person in the wrong, not the average joe, who has done nothing.

[Cerberus]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

To whom? I think the man's an idiot.

Also we (astronomers) are no alone...the ABC news blog consensus was 99% along the line of "what? ban? are they nuts?" but this gave me a good belly laugh!

"This is getting stupider by the day!

Just can't figure which bunch of
loonies are making large enough
donations to the (labour) party to illicit
this response"

certainly not to me! i don't think he will go very far, he's been on the backfoot almost from day one, and i certainly won't be voting for this person next election

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Have you considered though that as a group of "scientists", you of all the people in this country although requiring a permit , will be allowed to have one .....

Iemma's words, as I remember, were that people who need them for work can apply for a permit. Perhaps some suitable lobbying (more on that later) could swing it to 'work or hobby' or 'work and other acceptable activities'. Even then, according to the research done by ngcles obtaining a permit will cost between $127 and $292, and that is without the possibility of renewal fees. Isn't it a bit stiff to have to pay up to twice the cost of the pointer to be able to use it?

Originally Posted by Alchemy

I thought this was a forum for sensible people

Please! First omnivor and now you. Can't we have a robust debate without descending to personal insults?

[iceman (Mike)]

Alchemy didn't say that above - it was Bill.

I agree though - obviously a lot of people are very fired up about this issue, but please chill out a bit and take a deep breath before posting.

It's certainly not an issue worth name-calling or personal insults.

Think before you post. Re-read before you post. Go away and come back, and then re-read it again.

We're all adults here, so discussion and debate is great - but don't get personal.

[leon]

Like said earlier put it to bed.

leon

[fringe_dweller]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Just can't figure which bunch of
loonies are making large enough
donations to the (labour) party to illicit
this response"

but we all do know who is donating and controls the nsw state opposition dont we, id be hiding those evolution books about now, and preparing to wear 19th century clothing around the 'compound' - boy are you guys between a rock and a hard place good luck with that

[GrahamL]

Possibly annoying but hardly a weapon.

Pete your a pilot and your comment is exactly what bothers me about these things in that sure I believe that the actual chance of you being blinded is nil ,but the possibility of being distracted by annoying
dumb**** children with to much time on there hands is something you shouldn't have to deal with while landing an aircraft .

Additionaly if laser pointers arn't another form of light pollution why do many star parties ban or limit there use?

I agree there is a valid use for them in astronomy particularly teaching
but also think there not as popular as the evangelical would have us believe.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

My very humble apologies to Alchemy.

I really don't know how that happened. I pushed the 'Quote' button and that is what I got in the message box. In my case the advice should be 'proof read before you reply'.

Once again - sorry.

[Starless (Brian)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Iemma's words, as I remember, were that people who need them for work can apply for a permit. Perhaps some suitable lobbying (more on that later) could swing it to 'work or hobby' or 'work and other acceptable activities'. Even then, according to the research done by ngcles obtaining a permit will cost between $127 and $292, and that is without the possibility of renewal fees. Isn't it a bit stiff to have to pay up to twice the cost of the pointer to be able to use it?

It is actually twice the cost of the pointer to posess it, use doesn't enter into it.

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Please! First omnivor and now you. Can't we have a robust debate without descending to personal insults?

It seems not.

[skwinty (Steve)]

What I dont understand about the furore over this issue is:

Why aren't you guys thankful that you have a political and law enforcement authority thats looks at the smaller issues. When these agencies allow the smaller issues to slide, you can bet your bottom dollar on the fact that pretty soon the big issues will also slide.

No one answers my questions about the crime statistics in Australia.
I would love to live in a country where law enforcement is taken seriously and brutal crime is the exception rather than the rule even if it meant giving up some of my civil liberties such as unfettered access to laser pointers.

I use a laser pointer (20mw) and if I pointed it at a police man I would probably be shot dead on the spot. Our deputy minister of law and order instructed the police to shoot and kill any one who threatens their or the public safety.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Skwinty,

I am genuinely sorry that things are so bad in South Africa, just as I am sad about the situation in so many parts of the world. However I don't believe that letting things slide in Australia helps anyone, anywhere. I want to see everyone's existence raised to the highest possible level, not see us all sink into barbarity. If I can do anything to foster a better world it will be by influencing things in Australia. I'd be proud to think that we could build the type of society that others would aspire to. Yes there are bigger fish to fry than laser pointers but I also attend to that cooking.

[skwinty (Steve)]

Heres an article to put things into perspective for any one considering emigration.

Best and Worst Countries in the world
11th March, 2008
Have you ever wondered what country is most Utopian? Is there a place where government works? Which country is the worst? What about us?
The Fund for Peace publishes a list of 177 countries annually, ranking them from good to bad, and based on a number of important indicators – political, social and economic. The criteria include demographic pressures, humanitarian emergencies, tribal and racial vengeances, uneven economic development along group lines, severe economic decline, criminalization of the state, rise of factionalised elitesand application of the rule of law. In short, does the country work?So who fits in where?
According to the list, the best country in the world is Norway. It ranks first on the list due mostly to its homogenized population; the absence of conflict inside or outside its borders; a generous welfare system that provides free education, healthcare, widespread enfranchisement and a large degree of economic equality. Most Norwegians get only a few hours of sunlight a year and they're terribly boring so they spend a lot of time getting their government right. Interestingly they're not members of the EU, and most of the GDP is made up by massive oil-drilling in the North Sea. The Vikings made some good investments in the 1100s too. In descending order, after Norway, are: Finland (2), Sweden (3), Ireland (4), Switzerland (5), New Zealand (6), Iceland (7), Denmark (8), Australia (9) and Canada (10). That's the ten best. Most of them have stable, accountable government, small defense budgets, strong economies and populations with little racial, ethnic or cultural dissimilarity.
Congratulations.
The next category is populated by countries that are considered mostly stable and well-governed, but they have their problems.
Included in this group are: The United States (17), France(19), United Kingdom(20) and the United Arab Emirates(39). Most of these countries have a degree of disparity between rich and poor, some social service difficulties, governments that don't always get it right and processes that seem good enough but often fail to deliver.
The third category of countries is the biggest. They're considered to be problematic, but not hopeless. These countries can do little to safeguard the rights of their citizens, often have economies in decline or suspension, rely heavily on outside assistance or interference and are beset with complicated social forces within the borders, or conflict without. In this category are: Jamaica(54), Libya(62), Israel(102), Swaziland(116) and Colombia(144). Although there are major challenges in these countries, they are not considered Failed States.
That title is ascribed to the last group of countries, the bottom 32.
Lebanon(149), Pakistan(165), Myanmar(163) and North Korea(164) make up some of that horrible list. Life in these places in mostly unpleasant, except for the President and his good friends. Not surprisingly, the bottom ten looks like this: Central African Republic(168), Guinea(169), Afghanistan(170), DRC (171), C[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif','sans-serif']ȏ[/FONT]te d'Ivoire (172), Chad(173), Zimbabwe(174), Somalia(175), Iraq(176), and finally Sudan(177). Sudanis embroiled in a terrible ethnic and religious genocide, with widespread famine, poverty, disease and a factionalised, despotic government little interested in the welfare of their citizens. It is the very worst place to live.
So where do we fit in? Most of the people I quizzed today thought we'd be somewhere between 80 and 100. That says something about the pessimism of my sample group. South Africa is actually ranked number 44. Not bad. We have our difficulties, and we know what they are – but when you see a list like this it just proves that things are not nearly as bad here as some will have you believe. Of course there are better places, but there are many more that are worse. 44 out of 177 gives us a score of 75%. That's a pass, with disctinction.

[Cerberus]

skwinty, point taken, these seem to be two extremes of governing and from your perspective this laser ban is trivial, assuming the ballots aren't rigged you can vote for someone else or emigrate right?

[mark3d]

its already an offence to misuse the device... they dont need laws upon laws. its like passing a law to ban SMS whilst driving... well its already an offence to drive without paying attention.

[skwinty (Steve)]

Originally Posted by Cerberus

skwinty, point taken, these seem to be two extremes of governing and from your perspective this laser ban is trivial, assuming the ballots aren't rigged you can vote for someone else or emigrate right?

From my perspective, the law of the land should not tolerate antisocial behaviour of anykind. Now the Australian government obviously subscribes to this philosophy.

On the other hand African governments are only concerned about how they can get rich and have all the material goods they have been denied for centuries and who can blame them.

I have been overseas many times in my life and every time i returned home I was very happy.

Since 1994 however, things havent really improved, in fact they have deteriorated. Now the elections in 94 werent rigged, the minority was outvoted by the majority in the best democratic fashion.

Remember, to that the nationalist government essentially handed power over to the majority, rather than keep the apartheid suppression going. They knew that eventually it would cause a bloodbath.

For that I am grateful, but would like to live out my last days without worrying about the brutal crime and other atrocities.

[Peter Ward]

Depends upon how passionate you are about this, or any issue.

Apathy is the killer. Write a letter to your local member. Call a shock jock.
Write to the papers.

"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more" comes to mind.

Apart from 1) not getting re-elected...pollies really hate getting a lot of negative letters about *really dumb* policy- making them worry about point 1)

Either that or wander off into the paddock and join the other sheep...

[Harb]

I'm with you peter........ thumbs up