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  #81  
Old 14-09-2013, 10:01 AM
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Peter Ward
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Gday Gary

....
I cant imagine anything sitting in 100MB anymore due to the bloatware mechanisms used these days.

Andrew
Indeed. Sloppy code is almost the norm these days. It's no coincidence that many off the retired science team from Voyager ( now in interstellar space ) had to be consulted to get its teeny but still useful systems to still phone home.

BTW... For speedy execution Losmandy Gemini system was programmed in Assembler . A dark art indeed
  #82  
Old 14-09-2013, 10:09 AM
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Gday Peter

Quote:
For speedy execution Losmandy Gemini system was programmed in Assembler . A dark art indeed
Or was it programmed in C and then "tweaked" in assembler

Andrew

( who patches the Meade firmwares by manually manipulating the machine code hex files created from the assembler code
Ie i fight at times to rewrite stuff in order to save one byte of free space )
  #83  
Old 14-09-2013, 10:20 AM
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Those figures Mike are from the 2007 election. No one party has had 50 percent of the primary vote since 1954. Therefore no one has had a clear mandate from primary vote.
  #84  
Old 14-09-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by AndrewJ View Post
Gday Peter



Or was it programmed in C and then "tweaked" in assembler

Andrew

( who patches the Meade firmwares by manually manipulating the machine code hex files created from the assembler code
Ie i fight at times to rewrite stuff in order to save one byte of free space )
Definitely assembler. Rene Goerlich was still writing the original Gemini code while staying with us in Sydney....he was rather fond of Redback beer, which seemed to help keeping the code flowing

BTW Rene wrote much of the machine code for IBM mainframes...
  #85  
Old 14-09-2013, 10:45 AM
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Gday Peter

Quote:
Definitely assembler.
No wonder he drank

Andrew
  #86  
Old 14-09-2013, 12:26 PM
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NOT signed.
We should vote out Labor too, and sort this mess out.

Wait - we did!
  #87  
Old 14-09-2013, 01:04 PM
gary
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Thumbs up Into the Rabbit Hole - a personal perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward View Post
... was programmed in Assembler . A dark art indeed
Hi Peter,

Early in my career I swallowed the Red Pill and have been much deeper than that.

For example, one of the projects I was the manager on was the design and
implementation of a 32-bit microprocessor.

Starting with a blank sheet of paper, a first-cut of the architecture was a simulation
down at the register level, which also included the first iteration of the instruction
set, pipeline and caches.

Concurrently the code generation back-end of a C-compiler and assembler
was written which produced assembler and machine code for our first iteration
of the instruction set.

A series of target applications were compiled and the generated code run on
the simulator. What is referred to as profiling.

The designer has one foot in how efficient the instruction set is on the software side
and another foot in how it is most efficiently implemented on the hardware
implementation side.

Trade-offs abound.

What was of particular interest were aspects such as pipeline stalls. Whenever
a branch instruction is executed it can dramatically affect pipeline performance.
There are several methods with how to best deal with the problem, some of
which are compile-time schemes.

Profiling the execution of the applications thus provided clues as to
where improvements could be made. The instruction set was changed, the
pipeline altered and the cache sizes and architecture tuned, at the same
time being mindful that this then has to be implemented to fit on to a single
semiconductor die for the right price.

This particular device was then designed at the gate level.

Earlier than that in my career I had designed digital devices down at the
semiconductor transistor level.

That's a long way down the rabbit hole.

However, in turn, guys I worked with had been much deeper than that.

For example, before I had worked for him, my previous boss, an Aussie,
had earlier in his own career conceived, researched and implemented
semiconductor devices down at the quantum level.

Based on a prediction of his boss, he discovered the "quantum well".
They filed the patent for the first quantum well laser.
Useful if you want to build a CD or DVD player.

My boss went on to play an important part in the invention of what was then the
world's fastest transistor. The High Electron Mobility Transistor or HEMT
is fabricated in gallium arsenide (GaAs). They happily run at over 600GHz.
If you have a satellite dish on your roof there is one in there. They are deployed
in some mobile phone base stations. They are at the heart of radio telescopes and
there are some on-board spacecraft that have left the solar system.

Later and again before I worked for him, my boss was the manager of a semiconductor
research lab. One of the people he hired came to him as a postdoc. My boss
outlined to the postdoc what the team had been up to and sketched on
his whiteboard (he loved to use his whiteboard) some semiconductor structures.
As a result of that conversation, the postdoc made what he described in his
Nobel Prize acceptance speech as "a casual, almost trivial observation, which,
however, turned out to have big impact." The three lab workers in the team
discovered the fractional quantum Hall effect which won them the 1998 Nobel
Prize in Physics.

One afternoon I walked into my bosses office and he was staring at his whiteboard.
He said to me, "You know, I spent a great deal of my career thinking about things
in the first dimension".

He was alluding of course to his earlier involvement in the conception of
semiconductor devices using quantum confinement techniques. When he said
it I thought to myself that I can get my head around the third dimension and
the second dimension but I smiled and asked him "How on earth could you spend
all day just thinking about the first dimension?". He just smiled back.

He had clearly been down the rabbit hole much deeper than me.
What he had been involved in seemed like a dark art to us and it was
so mind-boggling, mathematical and abstract that all we could do was be in awe of
the people that burrow down that far.

But sometimes when we were giving our boss progress reports on what we were
doing much further up the hole at the hardware/software level, he would say,
"You know, you guys are really smart". Coming from someone who had
been so deep down the hole, that made us feel pretty good!

Peter, I guess if I were to get to sit where you do, I might look around the
cockpit at the instrumentation and at some level of abstraction have an
appreciation of, say, how the voting mechanism might be implemented
in hardware/software on the multiple redundant flight computers (research into
fault tolerant computer systems was my first paid job). My previous boss
might look around and seeing the light emitting from the LEDs have some
deep appreciation of how they work at the quantum level.

If an LED were to stop operating in-flight, you of course have an appreciation that
it is an electronic device that uses a quantum effect, but you don't need to know
exactly how it does that at the quantum level. You intimately understand what
the LED was meant to indicate and can instantly make a decision as to whether
you can obtain the same information but my some other annunciator.

As the rest of us look around and imagine how various sub-systems might
work at the levels of abstraction of which we have knowledge, we rely totally
on you to get us rolling and into the air and most critically, we rely on your
skill, training, intelligence and calmness to get us back down if something might
go wrong.

In other words, we'd all be saying you are a pretty smart guy!

It is interesting when you look around at the modern world and see
how complex it is. It requires many levels of specialization and
we rely on each other in complex ways.

Like most of us, I am unashamedly passionate about Australia and really
believe if we all keep pulling on the rope in the same direction we can
achieve even greater things.

I am also unashamedly passionate about the role science and technology has
played in getting us to where we are today. When the culture of our forebears
embraced the scientific and industrial revolutions all those years ago,
they helped set us up pretty nicely.

It is a trajectory that we would be silly to abandon.

You can divide the world into two camps of guys. If I had been lucky enough
to be present at Kill Devil Hills in 1903 watching the Wright Bros. take that
first flight, I am the type of guy that would be among those bellowing out "Go! Go! Go!".
But unfortunately there would always be some guy up the back laughing at them
and calling out "Crash. Crash.. Crash." When they only flew 37m, the same
guy would have no doubt made it clear to the rest of us that it was "useless".

Later when Kingsford Smith crossed the Pacific, the same guy would have declared with authority,
"That's good enough. We need do no more. Any more is a waste of time and money".

Like the man said, I guess we choose to do these things not because they are easy,
but because they are hard.

Best regards

Gary Kopff
Mt Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Phone: 02 9457 9049

Last edited by gary; 14-09-2013 at 01:17 PM.
  #88  
Old 14-09-2013, 01:25 PM
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Octane (Humayun)
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I have said this before, and, I'll say it again: Gary, I love your posts.

H
  #89  
Old 14-09-2013, 02:11 PM
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just....... wow gary, a brilliant orator..... bravo!
you win and game over!
pat
  #90  
Old 14-09-2013, 02:56 PM
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Steffen
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Quote:
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I have said this before, and, I'll say it again: Gary, I love your posts.
Indeed!
  #91  
Old 14-09-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
Obviously people are getting pretty emotional when it comes to the NBN. There is heaps of literature about pros/cons, costs, how it will be paid. The people who want it vs. people who don't need it. TBH the election was passed with a mandate. The majority applies. No petition is going to influence that. It's a minority. Right or wrong you guys can argue till the cows come home. No point getting agro about it. Go back under the stars and have a deep breath. Life goes on.
Mandates Would you like to know what Tony Abbott said about mandates in 2007?

"Nelson is right to resist the intellectual bullying inherent in talk of "mandates". What exactly is Rudd's mandate anyway: to be an economic conservative or an old-fashioned Christian socialist? The elected Opposition is no less entitled than the elected Government to exercise its political judgment and to try to keep its election commitments."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/p...530675473.html
  #92  
Old 14-09-2013, 03:55 PM
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just....... Wow gary, a brilliant orator..... Bravo!
You win and game over!
Pat
+1
  #93  
Old 14-09-2013, 04:21 PM
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kinetic (Steve)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post
I have said this before, and, I'll say it again: Gary, I love your posts.

H
Yep, great post!
Terrific insight and perspective....

Steve

Last edited by kinetic; 14-09-2013 at 07:26 PM.
  #94  
Old 14-09-2013, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
just....... wow gary, a brilliant orator..... bravo!
you win and game over!
I think part of Garys post indicates the game is never over.

Most people here would think all of these things are dark arts,
as many have no need or desire to understand how anything electrical/electronic works under the hood,
even though our lives rely more and more on them.

Even 50 years ago, not many people would have driven a car into the outback without basic knowledge of the car and how to fix it,
because if you couldnt fix it, you may actually die.
Today, no one cares let alone understands the basics of their cars, as its so complicated that a screen now tells you something isnt working and calls a tow truck for you.

I always associate ( what appears to be ) our current general attitudes to science/engineering to the starting of the age of the priests in ASIMOVs Foundation series.
Ie exceedingly few people really know how anything works, and they live in their own highly specialised black holes.
Some people know how to use the systems and promote themselves as the resident icons/priests/masters, by wrapping it all in magic.
and the rest are lemmings.
For this future to come true, we will need FTTH so the priests can feed us our lifes requirements without ever needing to leave their temples.
Still gunna need lots of little white delivery vans tho

Andrew
  #95  
Old 14-09-2013, 05:09 PM
bobson (Bob)
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Great post Gary!
We ought to learn from history.

cheers

bob
  #96  
Old 14-09-2013, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Haese View Post
Those figures Mike are from the 2007 election. No one party has had 50 percent of the primary vote since 1954. Therefore no one has had a clear mandate from primary vote.
Perhaps you skimmed my post I think you are confusing my use of the word "platform" with mandate? The labor party made it clear it wanted to take action on climate change and introduce some sort of price on carbon during the 2007 and 2010 elections hence my use of the word platform, just as the Coalition campaigned on a desire to repeal the Carbon Tax platform, this doesn't mean they have any sort of mandate now and that other parties should simply let them legislate as such just because they won enough seats to form a government...

I just think it is a HUGE shame that one of the other platforms the Coalition ran on up to this election was to downgrade the original and best vision of the NBN. Small consolation I guess is that it is better than their original policy, that of no NBN at all!!

Mike
  #97  
Old 14-09-2013, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary View Post
Hi Peter,

<snip>

"That's good enough. We need do no more. Any more is a waste of time and money".

Like the man said, I guess we choose to do these things not because they are easy,
but because they are hard.

Best regards

Gary Kopff
Mt Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Phone: 02 9457 9049
This piece of brilliant and unambiguous, oratory takes me back to this scene from Liar Liar particularly from about 1:40 on the tape

Mike
  #98  
Old 14-09-2013, 07:26 PM
Hagar (Doug)
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Mr Sidonio, amazing how you manage to use words like mandate, majority and now a new one, Platform to meet whatever requirement you have at the time. The reality is that neither party have an honest majority or mandate but the umpire has spoken (you and me) we have voted for the other bloke because we were sick to death of the one we had, in fact your party seemed to be sick of the one you had. So the other bloke is now at the wheel. Lets see what happens, who knows they cant be any worse. They will at least try to ditch the carbon tax which is currently one of two taxes or imposts we are expected to pay for in our electricity bills. Everyone seemed to have forgotten about the renewable energy certificate system.

Better not forget.:eyepop ::shr ug: : screwy::scr ewy::hi :
  #99  
Old 14-09-2013, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH View Post
Nice anology but the bridge is hard to upgrade (so they built the tunnel) whereas FTTN can become FTTH as and when required/justified (or you can pay to connect if you want it now) so this is not an either or choice. This is more like you having a quad width driveway while the bridge is left at 2 lanes. Oh yes, even worse, you HAVE to have your driveway upgraded - even if you only have one car....
I have been away for a couple of days, but I think that this is a point that really deserves a counter point of view.

Yes the bridge is hard to upgrade, in fact so is FTTN. The designs for FTTN and FTTH are fundamentally different in many ways and they would need to expend a heap of time and money planning for a future upgrade to FTTH, various parts of which are going to conflict with design aspects required by FTTN. Also required would be truly MASSIVE amounts of redundant fibre for the FTTN build, or a stupid and wasteful future FTTH network with power sucking electronics scattered throughout the countryside rather than a PON built with limited electronics and transmission gear per area and splitter cabinets everywhere.

An FTTN build does not lend itself at all naturally to future upgrade to FTTH, it lends itself most naturally to future complete replacement by FTTN. And no matter what the naysayers say, the future will be uncomfortably close to practical completion of the libs plan.

Last edited by The_bluester; 14-09-2013 at 10:53 PM. Reason: For clarity
  #100  
Old 14-09-2013, 10:08 PM
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They will at least try to ditch the carbon tax which is currently one of two taxes or imposts we are expected to pay for in our electricity bills. Everyone seemed to have forgotten about the renewable energy certificate system.

:

You got compensation for the carbon tax. Which they will keep, despite no carbon taxIt is the way just about every economist believes best to lower emissions.
And instead of higher electricity, companies will be raising costs to pass on there share of the parental leave scheme. Let us know if you are better off in 3 years

Mining tax was bad policy.
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