What happened to manners? - Page 5

adman (Adam) · #81 02-01-2013, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

Kindness, respect and good manners...

I think jjj has hit it on the head.

Although I would take kindness and respect any day over manners.

Kindness and respect come from the heart, and manners should flow from that. It is possible to show good manners, but at the same time show no respect. Look at the the previous posts where the supposedly well-mannered person finds that their opening a door for a woman was not appreciated.

If you show kindness and respect to everyone regardless of their gender/race etc, you can't go too far wrong.

If you are going to hold open doors for women simply because of their gender then you better be prepared for the full range of possible responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunama

Sounds like a cop out to me! The fact that you chose to use the phrase " .... to rub women's noses in this fact ............ " tends to negate the rest of your argument.

the fact that women have been viewed as weaker/inferior, not that they are weaker/inferior.

Adam

Steffen · #82 02-01-2013, 05:01 PM

Indeed. Respect is far more important than an overt display of respect (genuine or fake), also known as "manners". If you respect others and empathise with their circumstances you'll naturally find the right way to interact with them.

Cheers
Steffen.

PCH (Paul) · #83 02-01-2013, 05:58 PM

Totally unconnected with gender, - does anyone else here get totally miffed when they hold a door open for the next person in a busy stream of people, and that person just saunters through as if it's your job, and they don't take it off you to hold open in turn for the next person.

Before you know it, you're holding open the door for a never ending stream of people, none of whom will take the door.

When this happens now, I just let go and have often heard the person that it crashes into mutter all sorts of impolite stuff.

Go figure

Kunama · #84 02-01-2013, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adman

.... the fact that women have been viewed as weaker/inferior, not that they are weaker/inferior.....
Adam

ok that makes more sense ............

Cheers,
Matt

(I can't believe this thread is now on page 5....... Lewis should be banned from starting new threads ............. mods please see to it

FlashDrive (Poppy) · #85 02-01-2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCH

Totally unconnected with gender, - does anyone else here get totally miffed when they hold a door open for the next person in a busy stream of people, and that person just saunters through as if it's your job, and they don't take it off you to hold open in turn for the next person.

Before you know it, you're holding open the door for a never ending stream of people, none of whom will take the door.

When this happens now, I just let go and have often heard the person that it crashes into mutter all sorts of impolite stuff.

Go figure

Yep ...that's happened to me .... and as a few walk past me .... saying 'nothing ' ... as if I'm not there ...I say LOUD enough for all to hear ....GEE THANKS FOR HOLDING THE DOOR FOR ME ...to which ...I might get a casual glance back from 1 or 2 as they go their merry way.

Some people need an education on ' Thankfulness '

Flash ..!!

Raybot (Ray) (Ray) · #86 03-01-2013, 12:10 AM

Can we start a thread on modern parenting? that should keep us going for a while

Steffen · #87 03-01-2013, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashDrive

Some people need an education on 'Thankfulness'

It's quite ill-mannered to demand gratitude. Just saying…

Cheers
Steffen.

LewisM · #88 03-01-2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunama

ok that makes more sense ............

Cheers,
Matt

(I can't believe this thread is now on page 5....... Lewis should be banned from starting new threads ............. mods please see to it

Now there's gratitude. Thanks Matt

FlashDrive (Poppy) · #89 03-01-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffen

It's quite ill-mannered to demand gratitude. Just saying…

Cheers
Steffen.

Steff ...no one is ' demanding ' gratitude ....this was not implied ...a simple ' thank you ' for the courteous way I held the door for them is not ' hard ' to say .... is it ......just saying also

We are talking about manners here ...aren't we ..!!

Flash ..!!

WingnutR32 (Sam) · #90 03-01-2013, 10:49 AM

It is a catch 22, Flash...

If we hold the door open, it is good manners and respectful for the person walking through the door to say, "Thank you". However, it is not good manners, as such, for the person holding the door open to know/think that the other person should say, "Thank you"..

Damned if we do, damned if we do not

asimov (John) · #91 03-01-2013, 10:53 AM

Yeah right. Most women open the door for ME before I have time to open it for them! Naturally I say thanks very much..It's so they can cop a gander at my backside..I ain't silly!..

marki · #92 03-01-2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adman

Although I would take kindness and respect any day over manners.

Kindness and respect come from the heart, and manners should flow from that. It is possible to show good manners, but at the same time show no respect. Look at the the previous posts where the supposedly well-mannered person finds that their opening a door for a woman was not appreciated.

Adam

If she had said please don't open doors for me I prefer to do that for myself, no problem I respect that but that's not what happened. She launched into a loud rant abusing me in front of 50 or more people which I found very embarrassing to say the least. The passenger door was the only way in unless I went through the rear tailgate and even after I informed her that this was the case she still carried on as before so I left her there, I would have done the same if it had been a male. When you sink to this level I feel very little need to be polite nor will you gain my respect and if I behaved in a similar manner I could not hope to gain your respect either. she got what she disserved plain and simple and my response had nothing to do with her not appreciating the door being opened. As has been echoed throughout this thread if I am first to the door I will open it regardless of gender and if a female or male opens a door for me I always thank them not go in to a tirade as to whose function in society it is to do such a thing and start doubting my own self worth. In fact I actually feel privileged and valued when someone show's such a courteously, its like someone waving you into a lane in heavy traffic just plain good manners and always appreciated. I was brought up to believe in equality of the sexes and have never viewed it any other way. If people can't recognise a simple act of good manners then I feel very sorry for them as they are missing out on one of the few good things left in our fast declining society. Loud angry responses only belittle the person doing all the shouting and will often lead to ridicule not a gain in respect shown by others. It does more harm then good.

Mark

FlashDrive (Poppy) · #93 03-01-2013, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marki

In fact I actually feel privileged and valued when someone show's such a courteously, its like someone waving you into a lane in heavy traffic just plain good manners and always appreciated. I was brought up to believe in equality of the sexes and have never viewed it any other way. If people can't recognise a simple act of good manners then I feel very sorry for them as they are missing out on one of the few good things left in our fast declining society.
Mark

Absolutely Correct ..Spot On ...!!

FlashDrive (Poppy) · #94 03-01-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingnutR32

It is a catch 22, Flash...

If we hold the door open, it is good manners and respectful for the person walking through the door to say, "Thank you". However, it is not good manners, as such, for the person holding the door open to know/think that the other person should say, "Thank you"..

Damned if we do, damned if we do not

Well ...all I can say is .... It's Official ...I'm ' Old School '

astroron (Ron) · #95 03-01-2013, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingnutR32

It is a catch 22, Flash...

If we hold the door open, it is good manners and respectful for the person walking through the door to say, "Thank you". However, it is not good manners, as such, for the person holding the door open to know/think that the other person should say, "Thank you"..

Damned if we do, damned if we do not

Why is it not good manners to expect someone to say thankyou for a service done

I am not anyones slave

I don't find it so hard to say thanks,so why should you

Cheers

TrevorW · #96 03-01-2013, 01:22 PM

In these instances I just say

"I'm not the paid doorman" and leave it at that

Colin_Fraser · #97 03-01-2013, 02:24 PM

I think everyone has manners. Some just choose when to display them and who to display them to.

Steffen · #98 03-01-2013, 02:59 PM

I'm a bit apprehensive about entering elevators, so I let others go in first. People think I'm polite…

Nah, just kidding

joe_smith · #99 03-01-2013, 03:07 PM

"Why is it not good manners to expect someone to say thankyou for a service done" for example, opening a door for someone (not directed at you Ron personally just this type of view)

The way I see this, if you expect a reaction in a positive way for your action or good deed, then are you really doing it for them? or for you? if your actions are not for your own ego, then you should not expect anything in return.

" I think everyone has manners. Some just choose when to display them and who to display them to." I agree 100%

adman (Adam) · #**100** 03-01-2013, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marki

If she had said please don't open doors for me I prefer to do that for myself, no problem I respect that but that's not what happened. She launched into a loud rant abusing me in front of 50 or more people which I found very embarrassing to say the least. The passenger door was the only way in unless I went through the rear tailgate and even after I informed her that this was the case she still carried on as before so I left her there, I would have done the same if it had been a male. When you sink to this level I feel very little need to be polite nor will you gain my respect and if I behaved in a similar manner I could not hope to gain your respect either. she got what she disserved plain and simple and my response had nothing to do with her not appreciating the door being opened. As has been echoed throughout this thread if I am first to the door I will open it regardless of gender and if a female or male opens a door for me I always thank them not go in to a tirade as to whose function in society it is to do such a thing and start doubting my own self worth. In fact I actually feel privileged and valued when someone show's such a courteously, its like someone waving you into a lane in heavy traffic just plain good manners and always appreciated. I was brought up to believe in equality of the sexes and have never viewed it any other way. If people can't recognise a simple act of good manners then I feel very sorry for them as they are missing out on one of the few good things left in our fast declining society. Loud angry responses only belittle the person doing all the shouting and will often lead to ridicule not a gain in respect shown by others. It does more harm then good.

Mark

sorry Mark - not directed at you. I had a good chuckle about your story - its a valuable lesson for us all about having a preemptive tirade before you know all the facts!

Adam