Interstellar Travel Challenge

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

Anyway, rubbish aside, an interesting discussion guys, lots of good points! But I don't see a lot of discussion about the social aspects of maintaining a seed colony in some sort of order and purpose in close confines for perhaps millenia (other than freezing everyone for the duration, or taking the bits). Do you think it would it be possible?

Cheers -

I didn't explicitly state the social consequences in my post but it was one of the major concerns I intimated at. Given our present state of social development etc, is it possible....one word....NO....and I discussed your other options (various methods....freezing, taking "the bits"). If you had a group of very long lived, civilised and socially responsible travelers....YES, possibly. Then it would depend on the circumstance they found themselves in at any one time in their voyage.

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by sjastro

How may Space Arks (or is that Space Arcs) are we going to have to build.

Regards

Steven

Perhaps none ! They may do it for themselves ..!!..

Unfortunately, I think they're just out for the funding … no real intentions of (re)building 'The Ar(c)k' !

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by renormalised

I discussed your other options (various methods....freezing, taking "the bits").

Originally Posted by renormalised

If you use actual DNA, you then have the problems of the storage, plus the degradation of the DNA over time as well as protection from mutation, damage etc etc.

I don't think these problems would be insurmountable, once you've cracked the propulsion nut. (Ie: I'm still backing frozen ova/sperm, myself).

Social consequences ?

Arr … don't worry 'bout 'em .. if the newborns are brought up thinking it was normal for 'em to be shot off in a spacecraft, in-vitro'd and then tasked with settling one of your 'exo-inhabitables', then there wouldn't be any really tough social problems !

Cheers

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Perhaps none ! They may do it for themselves ..!!..

Unfortunately, I think they're just out for the funding … no real intentions of (re)building 'The Ar(c)k' !

They should get funding from fellow desirables such as telephone sanitisers, hairdressers, management consultants, and documentary film producers.

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by sjastro

They should get funding from fellow desirables such as telephone sanitisers, hairdressers, management consultants, and documentary film producers.

Its a little unfortunate that perhaps, as Carl asserts, this may actually be one specific case where pseudoscientific thinking may actually win the dash-for-cash !

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

They should get funding from fellow desirables such as telephone sanitisers, hairdressers, management consultants, and documentary film producers.

You forgot used car salesmen, telemarketers, FOX News presenters and late night TV show hosts

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Its a little unfortunate that perhaps, as Carl asserts, this may actually be one specific case where pseudoscientific thinking may actually win the dash-for-cash !

Yet pseudoscientists always complain about the lack of funding.

http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=zj49j0u7

Regards

Steven

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

Yet pseudoscientists always complain about the lack of funding.

http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=zj49j0u7

Regards

Steven

I wonder why that is, for the most part

[CraigS]

Well …. they haven't won it yet …
Its hard to imagine a rational bid winning the $0.5 mill though.

I'm fascinated to see what ultimately comes of this .. perhaps its a ploy to send all pseudoscientists bankrupt !
Cheers

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Well …. they haven't won it yet …
Its hard to imagine a rational bid winning the $0.5 mill though.

I'm fascinated to see what ultimately comes of this ..
Cheers

Might just be a bit of "throw away" money to waste at the end of the actual study. Give the plebs something to aim for and keep the kooks quiet

[renormalised (Carl)]

I have a feeling this is more of an exercise to look for any ideas, no matter how left of field they are. If they work or not, it doesn't matter.

[CraigS]

They say they are "collecting and gathering data to identify the business model needed to develop and mature a technology portfolio that will enable long-distance manned space flight a century from now".

They're also after the spinoffs: "Technology ranging from robotics to the Internet have been spinoff results of innovative cutting edge research such as propulsion, energy storage and transfer, etc."

Space programs to date have resulted in benefits as far flung as improving water purification processes to enhancing breast cancer detection. The technologies we create can have very direct impacts here on earth, including benefitting the warfighter-DARPA's principal customer.

The Symposium/Conference Agenda is scheduled for Sept 30 - October 2nd 2011 and will be split into the following streams:

Time-Distance Solutions [propulsion, time/space manipulation and/or dilation, near speed of light navigation, faster than light navigation, observations and sensing at near speed of light or faster than light]

Education, Social, Economic and Legal Considerations [education as a mission, who goes, who stays, to profit or not, economies in space, communications back to earth, political ramifications, round-trip legacy investments and assets left behind]

Philosophical, and Religious Considerations [why go to the stars, moral and ethical issues, implications of finding habitable worlds, implications of finding life elsewhere, implications of being left behind]

Biology and Space Medicine [physiology in space, psychology in space, human life suspension (e.g., cryogenic), medical facilities and capabilities in space, on-scene (end of journey) spawning from genetic material]

Habitats and Environmental Science [to have gravity or not, space and radiation effects, environmental toxins, energy collection and use, agriculture, self-supporting environments, optimal habitat sizing]

Destinations [criteria for destination selection, what do you take, how many destinations and missions, probes versus journeys of faith]

Communication of the Vision [storytelling as a means of inspiration, linkage between incentives, payback and investment, use of movies, television and books to popularize long term research and long term journeys]

Its all set … everything we've rambled on about here, is covered by these focus areas ..

Cheers

[avandonk]

Why don't we set off millions of iron nickel vessels with very primitive bacteria that could survive a long journey and radiation to randomly seed the Galaxy.

It's been done before! Hasn't it?

Bert

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by avandonk

Why don't we set off millions of iron nickel vessels with very primitive bacteria that could survive a long journey and radiation to randomly seed the Galaxy.

It's been done before! Hasn't it?

Bert

Iron-nickel vessels, eh ? Hmm .. maybe …

Forget the dirty snowballs though .. there are lots of articles floating round at the moment about water spouts being produced by stars .. (that comet story is starting to look a bit jaded).

Cheers

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by avandonk

Why don't we set off millions of iron nickel vessels with very primitive bacteria that could survive a long journey and radiation to randomly seed the Galaxy.

It's been done before! Hasn't it?

Bert

Panspermia....nothing wrong with that. If that was the case in general, given the enormous numbers of Sunlike stars in the galaxy, let alone the entire universe, with all things being equal there's probably billions of planets with humanoid entities running around on them in the universe and millions in each galaxy....if they all evolved from the same distributed protoplasm.

One way to spread you kind throughout the galaxy...launch the basics and see what a few million/billion years will do

[Bassnut (Fred)]

"Why don't we set off millions of iron nickel vessels with very primitive bacteria that could survive a long journey and radiation to randomly seed the Galaxy."

Originally Posted by renormalised

Panspermia....nothing wrong with that.

Wha..... umm, and why would you BOTHER ?

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

"Why don't we set off millions of iron nickel vessels with very primitive bacteria that could survive a long journey and radiation to randomly seed the Galaxy."



Wha..... umm, and why would you BOTHER ?

I could think of many reasons why you'd bother doing that...too many, in fact. But I'll give one good reason...what if life was scarce in this universe, in any universe. But the places where life could flourish were many. Why not identify those places capable of supporting life and then seed our kind there. Spread life throughout the universe and let it evolve. But keep an eye on proceedings. If we were the only truly intelligent and technologically advanced species in this particular universe, then we would be duty bound so to speak to be its caretakers. The same could be said for any such species in any particular universe.

The point being is this...even if life was super abundant and we were the least advanced society of the lot, we should still treat the universe with the same reverence as if it was in the condition I previously talked about.

[avandonk]

I see it as bit like leaving goats and pigs on far flung islands so next time you return there is plenty to eat apart from coconuts.

We can only make use of molecules that have the same chirality (hand) as ourselves for our nutrition.

So sending bacteria out to seed the galaxy is and was a good idea. Let us hope we are not dinner for a more ancient mob than us. With seven billion of us now they would not go hungry.

Even today there are bacteria that live in solid granite and divide about once a century. They would be good candidates for this journey as would some of the extremophiles.

I can just see my/our very far future decendant on a far flung planet tucking into something that evolved from these bacteria.

Bert

[bojan]

Originally Posted by renormalised

I could think of many reasons why you'd bother doing that...

..... then we would be duty bound so to speak to be its caretakers....

A Macquarie Bank manager would probably die of laughter if you mention this to him as a reason for financing the project

[Zaps]

There's nothing to be a "dream" about this. If DARPA and the Pentagon put something like this out, they're serious bout it. A lot of people think this is some sort of pipe dream, but how many would actually know anything about it to even comment, let alone know what has actually gone on with regards to this.

That budget money has to be spent if you want to see it again next year.

Without some currently unimaginable breakthrough in physics, there is effectively zero prospect of practical interstellar transportation.

Just do the math.