ICEINSPACE
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
Waning Crescent 5.6%
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22-06-2008, 11:35 PM
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No More Infinities
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Townsville
Posts: 9,698
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Mind you...many bankers, any salesman and especially lawyers, would offer any sort of opinion, go check it out and then falsify their observations just to gain some monetary recompense. Or, even worse, not do anything at all then lie through their teeth (false    ) to get what they wanted.
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23-06-2008, 12:25 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fremantle
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renormalised
That's all you've offered...an opinion.
A true scientist is bound by their ethical duty to provide the facts...truth has nothing to do with it. Truth is as subjective as the person telling it. Regardless of one's opinions, it's your duty as a scientist to find out whether something is BS or not, from actual observation and experimentation (if need be). Reading a paper about something and then deducing from that (or having the preconceived notion that) it's BS, is not science. It's dogma...opinion. You probably did save that client $2.5 million, and that was a relatively good judgment call on your part, but what if you had been wrong. What if this had have been the case, in this instance (not necessarily about PM, but with any claim about whatever). By not making it your duty to going to see what it was all about may have cost your client a lot of money. Money that someone else may have made a profit from. Something that you may have even benefited from. You have to cover all your bases, otherwise you can be caught out all too easily.
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You're a geologist?
What if someone seriously wanted you to spend $2.5M to investigate a site in some remote and expensive place to get to as someone sent them an email claiming that there is a vast underground deposit of green cheese that was laid down eons ago by dinosaurs and were offered the rights to the site for $500M?
I take it that you would take their money and tell them to spend the $2.5M on an exhaustive series of geophysical surveys and chemical analysis and then inform them that there is no green cheese there?
I think that would be unethical. As a geologist, you KNOW there is no green cheese deposit there. It is not your opinion that there may or may not be. It is a fact that there is no such thing as a geological green cheese deposit.
Of course if you think there may be a green cheese deposit there then you are a deluded fool. If on the other hand you know there is no green cheese deposit there and take the money and tell them that you will investigate it, then you are immoral and a thief. Or maybe a lawyer.
So you were saying.... which one are you?
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23-06-2008, 12:41 AM
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No More Infinities
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Townsville
Posts: 9,698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzy_A
You're a geologist?
What if someone seriously wanted you to spend $2.5M to investigate a site in some remote and expensive place to get to as someone sent them an email claiming that there is a vast underground deposit of green cheese that was laid down eons ago by dinosaurs and were offered the rights to the site for $500M?
I take it that you would take their money and tell them to spend the $2.5M on an exhaustive series of geophysical surveys and chemical analysis and then inform them that there is no green cheese there?
I think that would be unethical. As a geologist, you KNOW there is no green cheese deposit there. It is not your opinion that there may or may not be. It is a fact that there is.
Of course if you think there may be a green cheese deposit there then you are a deluded fool. If on the other hand you know there is no green cheese deposit there and take the money and tell them that you will investigate it, then you are immoral and a thief. Or maybe a lawyer.
So you were saying.... which one are you?
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I would offer them my opinion, as you did, that there was nothing to it and that it wouldn't be prudent for them to spend their money. Then it would be upto them as to what to do. However, I would still go and investigate it for them, because I wouldn't necessarily need to do much to tell if something was there. Maybe some exploratory drilling of a few holes would suffice. That's why they call it exploration...you don't know, for sure, what's there, but there's a chance that given the geology of the area in question, there could be something worthwhile. In many cases, you find out there's not, so you pack you stuff up and go onto the next prospect. Like anything else, it's a risk you have to be prepared to take, in order to possibly make something out of it. All geological exploration work is a risk....in many cases riskier than looking for that dinosaur green cheese. Even positively good geological indications sometimes show little or no results. Other times, relatively weak indications might turn up a surprise.
Just off topic here for a bit.....I just heard a big car (??) crash somewhere close outside. There's ambulance and police sirens going off near here. It's close by...wonder where??
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23-06-2008, 04:08 AM
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iceinspace
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,665
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Just a friendly reminder that if anyone has the urge to post a reply in the heat of the moment that would reasonably be considered a personal attack, please don't do it. Take a deep breath. If you have a problem with a post and feel you can't ignore it, press the  instead.
Cheers.
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24-06-2008, 03:52 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wellington point
Posts: 131
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I enjoy physics, but am certainly no expert. But I do know one rule: You don't get nothin for nothin!
This car seems to claim that it does. It is breaking the first law of thermodynamics: The increase in the internal energy of a system is equal to the amount of energy added by heating the system, minus the amount lost as a result of the work done by the system on its surroundings.
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30-06-2008, 11:20 PM
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E pur si muove
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzy_A
As a scientist, I believe that I have an ethical duty to tell the 'client' the truth - after all, the whole point of science (or at least a large part of it) is to determine the truth. ..
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I thought that scientists were only interested in what explained their observations and that the truth did not count for anything. Truth according to scientists is best left to philosophers.
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01-07-2008, 04:57 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fremantle
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwolf
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Isn't a 'car' that runs on water called a 'boat'?
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01-07-2008, 05:12 PM
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No More Infinities
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Townsville
Posts: 9,698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzy_A
Isn't a 'car' that runs on water called a 'boat'?
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No...because if it's got wheels, it's called a duck 
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12-11-2009, 07:45 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Queensland
Posts: 1
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all opinions and apparently unquestionable laws of physics on 'water splitters' aside, history has shown technology like this wont get far unless governments, fuel distribution companies and car manufacturers work in unison to control the supply chain at all levels, hence the hydrogen fuel cell will win over any hydrogen-on-demand technology using readily and freely available dirty water any day.
It's no conspiracy theory, but facts based on empirical evidence, that the above organisations have a rediculously huge amount of money to lose if fuel is free.
of course there's nothing ( yet ) stopping you researching the technology yourself ( with an open mind ) and checking it out
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12-11-2009, 08:30 PM
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pro lumen
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ballina
Posts: 3,265
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Anyone up for a pretzel ?
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12-11-2009, 09:12 PM
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stumblebum
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maroochydore
Posts: 765
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Maybe this thread should be re titled Lazarus !!! bring out your dead........bring out your dead.
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12-11-2009, 09:36 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 8,280
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That's why oil is called liquid gold
2009 Opec says the G7 group of industrialized nations collected more money from levying taxes on oil products than Opec members received from selling crude oil in 2004-08-a period which saw oil prices soar to a peak of $147 last summer.
Opec calculates that the G7 nations received $3.418 trillion in taxes during that period while Opec nations' combined revenues from oil sales came to $3.346 trillion.
DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THEY WILL ALLOW ANYTHING ELSE UNLESS THEY HAVE TOO

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12-11-2009, 10:22 PM
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Waiting for next electron
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,427
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Crikey folks, dam work won't let me view the site during the day and I missed all this  . I don't believe there is a material made that can split water without some form of energy input. Chemical bonds need to be broken therefore energy is needed.... This car is most likely a fraud.
We have a small model used to demonstrate fuel cell technology to students. It utilises a 3V solar panel which supplies the energy to the fuel cell where the water is split. The hydrogen and oxygen gas is then collected in seperate containers at the rear of the car which are submerged in water. The solar cell supplies enough energy to drive the motor and fuel cell in full light. When clouds prevent enough light from reaching the solar cell and the voltage drops below about 1.5V the process is reversed. The gas flows back through the cell and the stored energy is used to drive the motor with the gases reforming into water. Methane is also another good option for this purpose as it is easily obtainable (biodegradable materials) and does not get used up (is recycled) or combusted (no green gas pollution). With the possibility of new solar technology being able to ustilise a much larger proportion of the EMS this could definately be a future option. I would hate to have to pay for a full size version though  .
Mark
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13-11-2009, 10:21 AM
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2 screw loose stargazers
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: directly under that cloud. Brisbane
Posts: 338
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I have three questions,
First, - if its raining, does the tank overflow?
Second In the video it says that it will run on tea does it prefer earl gray or Darjeeling?
Third why is it being driven by an imperial storm trooper?
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