Laser pointer update

[matt]

Here's a report on Bris radio today:

QUEENSLAND may follow the lead of the New South Wales government .. and make improper use of laser pointers illegal.

Carrying a laser in public without reasonable explanation will soon be a criminal offence in New South Wales.

It follows a number of incidents in which aircraft over Sydney have been targeted with lasers.

Queensland Police minister JUDY SPENCE says she's considering the introduction of severe penalties...but says she also wants to make sure legitimate use of laser pointers is still allowed

[asterisk (Geoff)]

Police will have powers to frisk people they suspect of carrying any laser and those without reason to have them ...(smh 21/04/08)

Could add a new dimension to observing nights.

[tnbk00 (Daniel)]

I would like to know what "sufficient cause" entails

[Cerberus]

that really sets a precedent, searching a car for contraband is one thing but frisking a person is another, what if it's a minor, don't the parents need to be present first?

Meadehead, does that 30mw laser have an IR filter? if not be careful, unless you have IR goggles you shouldn't turn it on indoors because IR can bounce off walls

[alphamone]

Originally Posted by Davros

As its rather topical now "they can have my laser pointer when they pry it from my cold dead fingers" ................................... ...............to soon

no, not too soon, the guy deserves all the jokes cracked about him.

[Ric]

Originally Posted by tnbk00

I would like to know what "sufficient cause" entails

Probably a bunch of people in a paddock standing around a telescope

Cheers

[Outbackmanyep]

So now i see Mr Iemma has labelled them as "Weapons capable of mass murder"....where does "weapon" come into it? Police walk around with weapons capable of mass murder too......

They really have lost touch with reality!!!

They did mention Astronomy enthusiasts will have to apply for a "Prohibitive Weapon" licence.......what a joke!

Simple solution "Ban everything"

Not only that they're saying you can be jailed for 14 years for using one in an inappropriate manner......really....PUHLEEEASE!
If i was on drugs and went out and killed someone i wouldn't get as many years in jail. What has the Police and Govt's come to??? Full of P & W

[tornado33]

Dont laugh folks, in the "it can only happen in America" category, a group of amateur astronomers observing in a National park in the US were accosted by a park ranger, demanding a permit for their observing. When they couldnt produce one, they were ordered to pack up and leave. yes, thats right , you had to have a permit to use a telescope in that park!

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Cluster

More details:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...629786565.html

$5000 fine for those carrying lasers without sufficient cause.

But get this: Class 3 and 4 lasers will be declared a prohibited weapon, which could attract a 14 year maximum jail term. My GSO laser collimator is Class IIIa. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

I'm not so concerned about 'carrying lasers without sufficient cause' because I'm confident I can show I have sufficient cause. It also helps police in the situation where they know someone is misusing a pointer but can't catch them in the act. However the bit about the ban on Class III looks ridiculous.

I'm assuming that we use the US FDA classification available here

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...cfm?fr=1040.10

If we are limited to Class I and II the pointer simply can't do what we or other users need.

So, what do we do now??

[Babalyon 5]

Holy s**t, Batman! Theres another astronomer with a Class 3a Laser! In my Bat Binoc's it looks like a Howie Glatter 5mW! To the Bat Mobile!!
Weapon of mass murder! What am I gonna do, bludgeon people to death slowly with it. It'd take me years to kill one person with it! Not like I could cut their heads off!

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Ric

Probably a bunch of people in a paddock standing around a telescope

Cheers

Ric,
Is that a laser guided weapon in your avatar??

And before you ask, no that isn't a rock that got zapped by a laser pointer in mine?

{I'm wondering how many people know what mine is. }

Dave

[Outbackmanyep]

The trouble is that with police that are trying to ENFORCE a law, if you were caught and had to use an acceptable excuse its up to the officer on duty to wether he accepts your excuse. They can be like Sidchrome tools at times, every one is a tool but they're all different!

[anthony.tony]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...on=australia.I watched ABC news tonight this is the Link to the new laws on lasers and you can watch the news annoncement Tony

[Paul Hatchman]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

I'm assuming that we use the US FDA classification available here

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...cfm?fr=1040.10

If we are limited to Class I and II the pointer simply can't do what we or other users need.

So, what do we do now??

No. We use the AS/NZS 2211.1:2004 standard. An introduction can be found here http://www.griffith.edu.au/ots/Contr..._20feb2006.pdf

But a summary for those with short attention spans:

Lasers are classed by the amount of damage they can do to the eye/skin rather than their rated power. Class 1 and 2 are generally limited to 1mW for a highly collimated beam, but can be higher for extended sources.

Old class 3A (1997 standard), now class 3R (2004 standard) can be up to 5mW as long as they meet various other criteria.

Anything above a class 3A/R was probably already restricted by existing legislation, regardless of the new rules.

But I'd wait a bit until we see the actual legislation, rather than reacting to a newspaper report. The government has consulted with amateur astronomy groups and have said they would take our needs into account. But I'm guessing you are going to need a really good reason to posses anything over 5mW (or class 3R), because as far as I understand they are already covered by existing legislation.

Cheers.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Paul Hatchman

SNIP
No. We use the AS/NZS 2211.1:2004 standard. An introduction can be found here http://www.griffith.edu.au/ots/Contr..._20feb2006.pdf

But I'd wait a bit until we see the actual legislation....

Cheers.

Thanks Paul. A quick look suggests that the two standards are broadly similar.

It seems to me that part of our problem is that the Class IIIb category covers a pretty broad range (two orders of magnitude - 0.005 to 0.5W) and we are near the bottom of the range. I don't think a 5mW laser is bright enough for our purposes but 10mW is probably OK and 30mW is plenty. (I'd be quite happy to hear other opinions about that.) So perhaps what we need is the lower limit of Class IIIb to be raised.

Would it help if the lasers were pulsed? They would likely be just as usable but perhaps less hazardous. Does anyone know if that is possible and at what cost - both $$ and performance.

David

[Paul Hatchman]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

It seems to me that part of our problem is that the Class IIIb category covers a pretty broad range (two orders of magnitude - 0.005 to 0.5W) and we are near the bottom of the range. I don't think a 5mW laser is bright enough for our purposes but 10mW is probably OK and 30mW is plenty. (I'd be quite happy to hear other opinions about that.) So perhaps what we need is the lower limit of Class IIIb to be raised.

David, It's never going to happen.

The problem is that various standards bodies have decided that class 1 and 2 can be operated without training, class 3R requires some minimal awareness/training, but anything above that is not safe without proper training and supervision. Rightly or wrongly the government is following the Australian standard when determining what is "safe" for use by the general public.

Don't get me wrong, from what I've heard, the new laws do seem a bit over the top. My wife who used to do martial arts only has "controlled" weapons in the house. I was teasing her just tonight that her pacifist, astronomer husband now has a "prohibited" weapon. But I'll wait for the details before I pass judgement.

Cheers.

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

You laser guys better get yourselves brighter torches

[cfranks (Charles)]

Of course, when asked what we do with our pointers, we say "we point 'em up in the sky". oops!

[AstralTraveller (David)]

The problem with waiting to see the legislation is that by the time we see it it will be a fait accompli. And we won't see the detail until the legislation is introduced. Given that the 'law and order' opposition will support it, it could be through both houses in a day. Unfortunately you often have to campaign on what you fear will happen. That isn't logical or reasonable but it is how the world often works.

I'm still wondering whether pulsing the laser so it delivers less energy per unit time would make it safer for untrained users while still allowing it to appear bright enough for us to use. There would still be the issue of the idiots who zap aircraft but I think that can be covered under the 'without reasonable excuse' provision. (And don't just take their word for it that they are really astronomers, ask to see a scope, ask them to identify 5 deep sky objects.)

The question remains: is there anything that we can do as a (more or less) unified force to protect our interests.

Dave

[Ric]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Ric,
Is that a laser guided weapon in your avatar??

And before you ask, no that isn't a rock that got zapped by a laser pointer in mine?

{I'm wondering how many people know what mine is. }

Dave

Hi Dave, my avatar is merely "Star Bear" fine tuning his finder scope on his shoulder mounted Dobsonian

In relation to your's I picked it straight away. It's off a "Yes" album on inside of the cover, I think it may be "Time and a Word"

Cheers