A great day for minorities

[Octane (Humayun)]

Alex,

That figure is indeed correct.

H

[xelasnave]

Yes one a week.
The only ones on the news..the transsexual case and the tragedy where the whole family died.
I guess it is so normal no one cares

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by PCH

If nature intended etc etc.

Homosexuality is a not a choice in most cases, as that is the way nature made them, so your statement has no credibility. It doesn't make one less loving and nurturing either.

I know some children who were bought up in a loving same sex relationship. The children were the biological fathers to a failed marriage. Prior to his marriage failure, he was living a lie, is that supposed to be good for the family? It wasn't! These children are now grown, successful and well adjusted, and living "normal" lives. But then, who is to say what is normal.

Paul, I absolutely defend your right to your opinion, absolutely. However, if you are going to make statements on a open forum, then expect people to judge those statements, based on their own view of morality.

My opinion is that is I agree with Stuart that your views are ill informed and bigoted. However, you are who you are and are entitled to your view.

Cheers Peter

[rat156]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Yes one a week.
The only ones on the news..the transsexual case and the tragedy where the whole family died.
I guess it is so normal no one cares

Yes Alex, indeed a tragedy, as is the suicide rate, the way people with mental illness are treated etc. etc. etc.

But, having said that, it's still better than the situation years ago. As long as we see continual improvement we should applaud every effort.

Cheers
Stuart

[xelasnave]

We have our war on terror, our war on drugs, our war on poverty ..could we not have a war on domestic violence?
What is wrong with our society that accepts domestic murder as a matter less important than terrorism or drugs.
Imagine if terrorists killed one Australian per week.
We condemn honour killings overseas yet ignore this sore festering in our culture..makes us hypocrits.

[MortonH]

Those who complained about Tim Cook publicising his sexuality might stop to think for a moment about the attitude to gay people outside our "western civilisation". From the BBC today:

A court in Egypt has sentenced eight men to three years in prison for appearing in a video alleged to show a gay marriage.

All eight had denied charges of inciting debauchery and offending public morality.

The video, which was posted to YouTube in September, shows two men exchanging rings on a boat in the Nile.

Though homosexuality is legal in Egypt, it remains a taboo. Police raids on gay venues have risen in recent months.


A large proportion of the world still doesn't accept homosexuality as even legal, let alone "normal". So the CEO of Apple coming out publicly sends a message to the entire planet. Hopefully it might be a small step towards eventual acceptance in countries that deny people the basic rights that we take for granted.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

There's no need to carry forward a disgraceful attitude just because our parents knew no better and taught you poor values.

[rocco57au (Rocky)]

Originally Posted by FlashDrive

...... broad is the way to destruction .... and many are those that follow there in.

Col....

I agree with you Col... words that are very clear for those who understand the true meaning of what you say but unfortunately, the ways of this world have blinded far too many people to be capable of differentiating between what is moral and what is immoral... In saying that, it is NOT for me to judge anyone for their "choices" in life but I will say that I do not have to agree or be sympathetic to their cause!
That is ALL i have to say!

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

I don't go around screaming to the media "I am straight, have a wonderful wife and 2 great kids and successful" - I don't need to, because I believe in myself and the sanctity of my family.

Ummmm.. Yes, you just did, in this very post!

[AndrewJ]

So the CEO of Apple coming out publicly sends a message to the entire planet.

A lot of the "planet" doesnt care.
They just want to live their lives their way, without outside interference, and resent outsiders telling them what to do.

Andrew

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

A large proportion of the world still doesn't accept homosexuality as even legal, let alone "normal". So the CEO of Apple coming out publicly sends a message to the entire planet. Hopefully it might be a small step towards eventual acceptance in countries that deny people the basic rights that we take for granted.

The basic rights we take for granted are based on our beliefs or what we are forced to accept by our so called leaders. Other countries are entitled to their own beliefs and we have no right to try and impose our values on them. If "western values" were anything to brag about, then maybe we could comment but the behaviour of the west is as despicable as many other non-western countries and itrying to enforce our values is a significant contributor conflict in the world.

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by julianh72

Ummmm.. Yes, you just did, in this very post!

Oh, that was so VERY insightful and useful.

All your "insight" does is create an asymptotic situation. Maybe "Contextual example" needs to be discussed.

Mark Twain's quote regarding arguments is so very apt here.



.

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by el_draco

The basic rights we take for granted are based on our beliefs or what we are forced to accept by our so called leaders. Other countries are entitled to their own beliefs and we have no right to try and impose our values on them. If "western values" were anything to brag about, then maybe we could comment but the behaviour of the west is as despicable as many other non-western countries and itrying to enforce our values is a significant contributor conflict in the world.

I'm only referring to the basic right of everyone to live without prejudice.

I'm not suggesting the "west" is perfect, far from it, but we've come a long way from the days of blatant discrimination based on race, orientation, etc. Other countries are on the same path but are further behind. And while I agree that we shouldn't impose our ideologies on others, that doesn't mean that people in those countries can't take inspiration from the West to further their own struggles.

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

A lot of the "planet" doesnt care.
They just want to live their lives their way, without outside interference, and resent outsiders telling them what to do.

Andrew

We're not telling them what to do. We're showing them what the people they persecute are capable of achieving.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by PCH

If nature intended for the night to be dark and the day light, then that's normal and it isn't for us to try to interfere with that.

If nature intended for the poles to be full of ice, then it's not for us to interfere with that either. And when we do, like we are right now in this example, then all he'll breaks loose and we all realise what idiots we've been not to see the danger signs earlier.

And if nature decides that for the human race to procreate 'normally' it must include a man and a woman to further the species.

Anyone who says different is deceiving themselves.

I'm not saying that they don't have rights and should be treated with respect in other facets of life. But I AM saying, it isn't normal for a child to be brought up by two men or women.

And it's not my opinion, so (Stuart) it's no use labelling me a bigot! - it's a fact of nature and there's no denying that.

Paul, I'd like to see how you envisage that decision-making process. Because if there is one, HOW COME people wear clothes, drive cars, breed chihuahuas, synthesize drugs, travel to space, contribute to internet forums - just to name a few? Do you honestly believe nature intended for any of this to happen?

Perhaps nature needs to be spoken to.

Or perhaps nature didn't intend anything, and things just happen?

Perhaps the actual self-deception is in saying that nature "intended" anything? Possibly because some people can't stand, or comprehend, the thought of there being no purpose on the greater scheme of things?

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

Given the hassle and social outcasting, I don't think anyone would want to be GLBTI.
I know no one thinks it is a choice or a lifestyle.
I spent some time on a counselling course that was so outdated that they still taught Freudian psycho sexual c**p. Even they admitted that it is hardwired into us.
By admitting that, there is no way that it can be listed as an aberration.

[PeterEde (Peter)]

Originally Posted by rat156

So this includes or excludes couples where one partner is infertile? I'm confused.



NO, you are saying that "all I can say is that when a pair of guys or a pair gals get together and want to raise kids, any support I may have had for their rights stops right there". So you would like to take away, what you have conceded in your original statement, is one of their rights. You can't have it both ways, you can't say that you don't support their right without meaning that you would like to see it taken away.

Sort of like if I said that I don't support your right to free speech, wouldn't that necessarily mean that I would like you to shut up? I use this as an analogy only, of course you should be able to express your opinion. You should also own up to the fact that it's your opinion.



See above re it IS your opinion. If you espouse a bigoted viewpoint I will call you a bigot. You have aired what I, and many others here, have deemed to be a bigoted viewpoint, hence the label. I also notice that you didn't complain about being labelled homophobic, is this somehow less offensive to you?

What is a "fact of nature"? Aren't we, as a species, changing the rules all the time? In this case I think that you've mistaken a "fact of nature" for a norm of society, and only our society really, there are many other societies where other than the physical act of copulation the male is superfluous to the rearing of children. As none of can remember the moment of conception, what does it matter if you are brought up by two men, two women or one of both, as long as they are loving and caring?

Cheers
Stuart

Last week we were discussing over population and here we are today discussing the artificial creation of life for infertile people be they hetro or gay.
Does no one see the hypocrisy in this argument?

We are the creators of our own demise. If you believe in global warming then you have to believe over population is part of the problem.

So why are we artificially creating life.?

as stated being gay is normal. Them not having children in a natural way is normal. So why are we allowing them to have children by artificial means?

your arguments for allowing same sex to have children is flawed.

I do believe we are the problem. Artificially extending life expectancy. Artificially creating life where "god" has said sorry you're not having kids.

Reducing population has to start somewhere. Until we either find a new home. find a cure for mass starvation.

I feel for people who want to be parents but can't. But life is cruel.

People deserve to live their lives as they see fit. They don't need to shout it from the roof tops. Most of us don't care.
But until two women or two men can procreate naturally I say no to children.
Was it fair on the children gay parents to live a lie. People are selfish. Just as leaving children till later in life and having them in your 50's 60's. Poor bloody kids. These people should not be giving IVF either.

Who had parents in their 50's or older when they were young? I know someone like that who was embarrassed to be picked up.
Today we teach kids it's natural to have 2 mummies or two daddies. It's not. Just as it's not natural to be morbidly obese. Stop perpetuating lies for the sake of political correctness

[chiaroscuro (Luke)]

When a heterosexual couple walks down the street hand-in-hand, past endless advertising billboards showing heterosexual couples hugging, kissing, lying in bed together... no-one bats an eyelid.
But if a gay couple walk down the street hand in hand, the best they can expect is disapproval from many, and the worst they can expect is physical violence - the justification being that they are shoving their "lifestyle" down other peoples throats.
Its only through people being courageous enough to come out, that attitudes have begun to change. And the more high-profile people that do it, the less ignorance and hypocrisy will prevail.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

Oh, that was so VERY insightful and useful.

My comment was not meant as a personal insult, and I apologise if offence has been taken.

The point I was making is that heterosexuals are free to talk about their relationships openly, at any time or place, with no risk of adverse consequences. They can mention their husband, wife or "partner" at work, socially, or when talking to the media, and do so entirely unconsciously, without ever thinking of it as "screaming to the media" about their sexuality.

For a gay person, it is very different - the moment they mention their partner, or the fact that they are involved in a relationship, it is interpreted by some as inviting comment about their sexuality and relationships - especially the media, in the case of anyone with any element of "celebrity" status.

Until we as a society have matured to the point when a gay person can mention their partner without it becoming "news" (just as heterosexuals already do), it is unfortunately still important that some highly-placed gay individuals are courageous enough to "out" themselves.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

http://www.lgbthistorymonth.com/www/...?tab=biography
This case is particularly distressing as it shows up the defense strategy of 'gay/trans panic'
In actual fact these murdering teenagers knew her at school so it was in effect a cover up.

All the people at the party where she was murdered were aware of thebeating and murder ( she was murdered with a shovel)

I know of at least 2 dozen murders a year of teenagers like this.
Do you think GLBTI folks WANT to be different?
I am also aware of a lot of suicides of boys entering puberty who can no longer bear the anguish and end it all.
The parents usually say they had no idea their child was hurting.
They usually lie to save themselves the embarrassment.