Whats happening in the good old USA - Page 4

blink138 (Pat) · #61 17-12-2012, 11:16 AM

ha! just listening to the news before work and they had a small clip of an important man speaking in an interview and he said "god i wish (the teacher) had an m4(?) behind her desk so that when she heard the gunfire she could have grabbed it and blew his head off right there instead of having to lunge at him before...... now wait for it........ he could harm our precious children!!!?
now call me an 'ol fuddy duddy, but really? there is a very sick society right there!
so the teacher should have blown his brains all over her students and then the kids are going to be fine! whooaa! i know they would be alive..... but damn they are a mixed up people!

blink138 (Pat) · #62 17-12-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpius51

I think this discussion has passed its use-by time. This is an astronomy forum, not a pro/anti gun control forum. A tragedy has occurred, so let's leave the tit-for-tat arguments for another place, please!

john this is the "general chat" forum!
its up to the mods to stop it if they get fed up, they have already cut (rightly) a silly rant from a member
pat

Stardrifter_WA · #63 17-12-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpius51

I think this discussion has passed its use-by time. This is an astronomy forum, not a pro/anti gun control forum. A tragedy has occurred, so let's leave the tit-for-tat arguments for another place, please!

Indeed, it is an astronomy forum, but do you talk about astronomy and nothing else. I certainly don't, otherwise I would be seen as totally boring (probably am anyway). I find the discussion on this forum to be quite enlightening and engaging. After all, we are an educated or well informed lot and it is great to digest the differing opinions. I want to expand my general knowledge beyond just astronomy and this is an excellent forum to do so.

The heading of this forum is General Chat and it is, in my opinion, to discuss topical or other issues and interest "tit bits", as one does everyday with their friends.

Fortunately, there are other forum headings specifically related to astronomy for those that do not wish to discuss current events or who do not wish to discuss anything else.

Cheers Peter

alocky (Andrew lockwood) · #64 17-12-2012, 11:42 AM

I heard this argument a lot in the US after Port Arthur while taking fire from the locals about our insane gun buy-back (which appears to have been effective to date).
I'm actually representing Australia in a shooting event next year - so I do have a bias on gun laws, but the thought of a relatively inexperienced person opening up with another assault rifle under the unimaginable duress of such a situation is appalling - they're going to double the number of casualties pretty damn quick. Guns are easy enough to use, but even a stopwatch can create enough pressure to make you miss. Let alone a target that can return fire.
Regards,
Andrew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blink138

ha! just listening to the news before work and they had a small clip of an important man speaking in an interview and he said "god i wish (the teacher) had an m4(?) behind her desk so that when she heard the gunfire she could have grabbed it and blew his head off right there instead of having to lunge at him before...... now wait for it........ he could harm our precious children!!!?
now call me an 'ol fuddy duddy, but really? there is a very sick society right there!
so the teacher should have blown his brains all over her students and then the kids are going to be fine! whooaa! i know they would be alive..... but damn they are a mixed up people!

Octane (Humayun) · #65 17-12-2012, 11:50 AM

Also, that Morgan Freeman quote is bogus.

H

Waxing_Gibbous (Peter) · #66 17-12-2012, 11:53 AM

For me there is a certain irony here.
I've just got out of a fortnight in hospital having been shot!
A total accident - I was out foxing with a neighbour and he skidded in some mud just as he pulled the trigger- but one I certainly could have done without!!!
I like guns.
I have three for different situations.
I've been shooting since I was 16.
In that 35 years, I've never once felt the need to own an assault rifle or semi-auto pistol (or indeed any pistol).
There's no need for them outside of a war zone and even the police should be restricted in their use.
There can be endless dbate about mental healt and the erotica of gun violence, but had these weapons not been available to this man, its a certainty that (unless he had a bomb) he would not have been able to inflict death and injury 'on the scale he did.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the people of Newtown and hopefully this incident will bring about some change in the US gun laws.

Scorpius51 (John) · #67 17-12-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

The heading of this forum is General Chat and it is, in my opinion, to discuss topical or other issues and interest "tit bits", as one does everyday with their friends.

Fortunately, there are other forum headings specifically related to astronomy for those that do not wish to discuss current events or who do not wish to discuss anything else.

Cheers Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by blink138

john this is the "general chat" forum!
its up to the mods to stop it if they get fed up, they have already cut (rightly) a silly rant from a member
pat

Fair points, guys! I stand corrected.

John

LewisM · #68 17-12-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octane

Also, that Morgan Freeman quote is bogus.

H

Probably, but the points are valid regardless of who wrote it.

Geoff45 (Geoff) · #69 17-12-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorW

I do not condone a total ban on firearms, as this will only force firearms underground and more so into the hands of criminals

Criminals usually try to keep a low profile and are not typically involved in mass killings.

TrevorW · #70 17-12-2012, 01:47 PM

Is the person who commits a mass killing not a criminal. So what are you saying.

My argument has and always will be that a gun does not kill another person, it's just a tool.

I could make a hell of a mess if I want to with a chain saw even a modified nail gun and it's not that hard to make a flame thrower given the right tools.

More scrutiny of the gun owner licensing and security of firearms is what's required.

Killing someone with a sword may be more personal but I'd rather die quickly from a bullet wound than bleeding to death from sword wounds.

TrevorW · #71 17-12-2012, 02:29 PM

Why not, if we had the same legislation etc do you think it would be any different here, I don't think so ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...s_Constitution

LewisM · #72 17-12-2012, 04:03 PM

Gun legislation and laws have done VERY little except cost a LOT of money (all the various buy backs cost the states/federal MILLIONS) and created a lot for state coiffures (a permit to acquire in QLD costs $32 per firearm. Licenses have gone astronomical in price!).

America DOES need to toughen up it's guns laws, but also as Obama points out, there are other issues just as pertinent that need revision - mental health issues etc.

Comparing the American psyche/ideals/persona to Australian ones is actually pointless, because theirs is QUITE different to ours and the two are not interchangeable.

Moon (James) · #73 17-12-2012, 04:29 PM

Due to the stronger than expected replies, I have deleted my comments and unsubscribed from this thread.

leon · #74 17-12-2012, 04:41 PM

This debate could go on forever, what are our grand kids going to go through when we are safe 6 foot under.

Leon

blink138 (Pat) · #75 17-12-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moon

Due to the stronger than expected replies, I have deleted my comments and unsubscribed from this thread.

unless i missed something terrible, i thought we were having an extremely civilised discussion on this thread and this topic
pat

astroron (Ron) · #76 17-12-2012, 05:06 PM

Lewis, can you elaborate on this part of your statement

Quote)
Gun legislation and laws have done VERY little except cost a LOT of money.

How many households have semi automatic rifles lying about now

as was the case Before the gun legislation was brought in.

If you don't need a gun, why own one

Seems it did some good for the hair do

Quote
and created a lot for state coiffures.

LewisM · #77 17-12-2012, 05:34 PM

Ron,

Here's a little history - the world record for AIMED (accurate) shot from a BOLT ACTION rifle was 38 rounds into a 12" bullseye at 300 yards in 1 (ONE) minute in 1914. Set by British musketry instructor named Sgt. Snoxall. That included reloading, seeing the SMLE is 10 shot rifle. I personally have attempted this "Mad Minute" as it is known and ONCE managed 20 - all within the 12" bull (my shoulder hated me for a while).

Banning semi-automatic rifles did NOTHING.

Automatic firearms have been banned for civilian ownership in Australia since the 1920's.

AndrewJ · #78 17-12-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

cost a LOT of money.

I knew someone with an old rusty double barrel shotgun.
They were going to give him $100 or so for it.
He went to a gunsmith, had it cleaned repolished etc etc
so it looked immaculate. cost about $150
He went back and got around $500 for it
and it got crushed

A lot of the guns removed as part of the buyback were
probably never really a threat,
and pretty much all the illegal guns are still out there.

What would be really interesting is to see is
if the general suicide/family murder rate has dropped,
vs the emotive "by gun" rate.
If people have just found other ways to do that,
then it really hasnt achieved much compared to the money spent.
Better off funding mental health in the first place????

Dunno the answer.

Andrew

TrevorW · #79 17-12-2012, 05:41 PM

This is how hypocritical are Govts are

when the police moved away from revolvers to Glock semi-automatic pistols the used revolvers where shipped to America to be sold on the second hand market

and this was the reason behind buying Glocks given at that time

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/pro.../LA19960418023

it seems the revolver was an outdated inefficient deterrent

Probably enough said by me, the issue can only be resolved in the USA, personally I believe the laws in Australia are sufficient but not uniform across Australia. I also think the police should move away from licensing the gun and more towards licensing the owner.

ps: I forgot to mention that some of the guns that were purchased in the buy back scheme ended up back on the second hand market

astroron (Ron) · #80 17-12-2012, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisM

Ron,

Here's a little history - the world record for AIMED (accurate) shot from a BOLT ACTION rifle was 38 rounds into a 12" bullseye at 300 yards in 1 (ONE) minute in 1914. Set by British musketry instructor named Sgt. Snoxall. That included reloading, seeing the SMLE is 10 shot rifle. I personally have attempted this "Mad Minute" as it is known and ONCE managed 20 - all within the 12" bull (my shoulder hated me for a while).

Banning semi-automatic rifles did NOTHING.

Automatic firearms have been banned for civilian ownership in Australia since the 1920's.

You quote professional people (yes I am including you here as you seem to have a great deal of knowledge of fire arms) not some person who can pick one up at a gun shop or supermarket.
I would hazard a guess that the police would disagree with you on the statement that not having semi automatic weapons in peoples homes did nothing.

Please answer the question?
If you don't need a gun, why own one

BTW I was in the British Army for quite a long time, so am no stranger to High powered weapons.