Got scammed on IIS

[MortonH]

It's interesting what I feel now when I look at some of the current classifieds. There's one item I'm slightly interested in, and it's only around $100 so nothing like the value of the Tak, but when I apply my new "suspicious" mode, I see:

1. Joined less than 5 months ago
2. Less than 20 posts, although spread over the whole membership period, not all posted recently
3. A few previous sales but almost all were marked "SOLD" without anyone replying to the thread, so you can't tell who bought the item and contact them for verification.
4. The one sale that did have a reply in the thread was from an even newer member with less than 10 posts, so no comfort there.

It's probably genuine but a little too similar to my recent experience.

[dreamstation (James)]

As I said in my message to you Morton, I was probably a little too trusting with some of my purchases as well. Thankfully they all came through but I will definitely be taking a lot more care moving foward.

Suspicious mode. I like it!

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by MortonH

It's interesting what I feel now when I look at some of the current classifieds. There's one item I'm slightly interested in, and it's only around $100 so nothing like the value of the Tak, but when I apply my new "suspicious" mode, I see:

1. Joined less than 5 months ago
2. Less than 20 posts, although spread over the whole membership period, not all posted recently
3. A few previous sales but almost all were marked "SOLD" without anyone replying to the thread, so you can't tell who bought the item and contact them for verification.
4. The one sale that did have a reply in the thread was from an even newer member with less than 10 posts, so no comfort there.

It's probably genuine but a little too similar to my recent experience.

Seems weird replying to my own post but the seller I was alluding to above just updated another ad (he has about 5 currently) and raised my suspicions further. Contacted the mods and they agree it requires investigation.

Only one person had replied to any of the ads so I've alerted that person to be careful.

[yoda776 (Matt)]

I had a similar issue buying a scope for $4300 on this site. I had paid my money but the scope did not arrive. After pestering and threatening police action after 8 weeks I finally got MOST of the package minus a few key bits. Still to this day a year later nothing after many repeated attempts.

It days make you more careful and certainly with the exchange of money via bank deposit people tend to prefer. Paypal is safer and has some insurance if done the right way but usually you will be asked to pay the 3-4% premium.

I found the moderators helpful in discussing the issue and the user was eventually banned after providing proof. I really did not like going this way but the person was a shonk and later fond he had shonked a number of people and had the Queensland police asking questions.

I now check:
* No of posts (honestly some of us do not post for a while on here - I have stayed at 100 for some time now - just do not get time with work)
* Duration on IceInspace
* Payment method
* Previous history of sales and responses. In some cases having some feedback on sales from the buyer would give a reputation factor, although this can be abused as well with people's pet peeves or minor issues (ebay is a good example of this).
* Advice to keep comms on the web site and not via private email so the mods can see a history.

I have watched some ads on here and I think I know the one you referred to - I believe it was shonky so stayed clear.

I hope no one else gets diddled but not everyone is honest in this world unfortunately.

[yoda776 (Matt)]

Sorry to here Morton. I do hope you get your money back, as I mentioned in my other post I got scammed last year. Although I psyched out the scammer and managed to get the scope (just not all the gear) after a long battle.

Originally Posted by MortonH

It wasn't via CC in my case.

Paypal's T&C say that you can't be reimbursed twice (obviously) so if Paypal refunds the money and then your CC pays out as well you have to return Paypal's money. Not aware of any other impact.

[hotspur (Chris)]

Ghezz Morton,sorry to read all this

I've still got that Vixen ED81 stuck in a cupboard,really not doing that much astro lately.I'll dig it out and ponder selling it,if I do you have first dibs-think you were interested in it a while back.

Some good advice from many members here.Hope you get some good news your way soon Morton.

[csb (Craig)]

There's currently an ad in classifieds from a member since 2006 with only 5 posts! Item is now sold. Hopefully all good.


I wonder if IIS is open to this method of scamming:>

Scammer posts a few fake ads in classifieds.

He marks as SOLD but does not actually have any sales. Any member who responds is told there is already a buyer.

Scammer would do this a few times to get some sales on the Icetrade Activity board.

Scammer then posts an ad for expensive item.

Members look at scammer's sales activity, which shows successful sales, and someone then gets ripped off.


How is the sales activity actually collected & tabled? From people marking their ads SOLD?

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by csb

There's currently an ad in classifieds from a member since 2006 with only 5 posts! Item is now sold. Hopefully all good.


I wonder if IIS is open to this method of scamming:>

Scammer posts a few fake ads in classifieds.

He marks as SOLD but does not actually have any sales. Any member who responds is told there is already a buyer.

Scammer would do this a few times to get some sales on the Icetrade Activity board.

Scammer then posts an ad for expensive item.

Members look at scammer's sales activity, which shows successful sales, and someone then gets ripped off.


How is the sales activity actually collected & tabled? From people marking their ads SOLD?

I think this is exactly what is happening in some cases.

I imagine the sales activity is based solely on how people update/close their ads. No way for the mods to verify any of that but at least you have a quick link to their ads and can do your own detective work. That's what raised my current suspicions.

[Kunama]

With the exception of cheaper items (under $500) I suggest buying only from people you know or can meet in person.
I have bought all my scopes this way except for one.
With that one I made enquiries with another trusted seller first and then proceeded.

Always talk to your trading partner and get a phone number you can call them on, then try that number to make sure it is not fake, especially if the transaction involves lots of $$$.

I have bought and sold lots of stuff here and only felt minor 'stings' when cheaper items were not quite as described.

So far I have travelled to Gippsland, Mildura, Blackheath, Wollongong, Sydney among other places to pick up scopes.

I realise most people cannot personally go to these lengths to ensure the items are as described. Perhaps enlist the help of someone you know in the area.

I am more than happy to check out a scope for a friend if that scope is being advertised in my area.


( P.S. I am not ignoring Morton's plight in this instance and have had PM discussions with him since the start of this issue, still hoping for PayPal resolution which, from personal experience, can take weeks and even months )

[bigjoe (JOSEPH)]

Sad news potentially for you and all Morton!

Hope paypal does the right thing here or they'll get some negative reviews!

[MortonH]

Thanks for all the messages and PM's of support. I expect to hear something from Paypal next week. There's a mandatory 10-day period they give the seller to respond when you lodge a claim. T&C say if the seller doesn't respond at all then the claim is automatically decided in favour of the claimant. But that doesn't guarantee a refund of the money (or how long it might take to finalise).

[PSALM19.1 (Shaun)]

That's really upsetting! Have you got in touch with your bank? I work for a credit union in the section that handles Visa and Internet fraud...there are some options depending on the institution; I would hope Paypal would be helpful in this case

[MortonH]

The 10-day waiting period expired yesterday and I just got an email from Paypal:


We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your favour.

We were able to recover $x,xxx.xx, and this amount has been credited to you. Please allow 5 business days for this adjustment to be posted.



They've credited back the full amount already. Didn't expect it so quickly. Go Paypal!

Looks like I'm back in business!

[Kunama]

Excellent news !!

[DJT (David)]

Nice one!

[MortonH]

I feel very lucky and happy. That was three weeks of stress I didn't need!

Note that Paypal's email specifically states "We were able to recover $..."

I'll never know for sure what would have happened if they hadn't been able to recover the money. For future purchases I'll be taking every precaution. Sellers beware!

[codemonkey (Lee)]

Glad to hear this ultimately resolved in your favour, Morton. Such a shame to see behaviour like this within such a small community.

I've personally spent thousands of dollars through the classifieds on this site and having a history of making internet purchases over many years, I've never really thought too much about it. I've always used paypal though, just in case. I've only ever had to exercise the buyer protection once and it was through eBay rather than here.

Lots of good advice in this thread, and it definitely pays to be careful. It does make it somewhat more difficult in such a niche market though, where the things you want rarely come up for sale.

Anyway, once again, glad to hear this resolved.

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Glad to hear it, Morton

[Spookyer (Brett)]

Yes, good outcome. Good to see scammer doesn't benefit and Morton gets his money back.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Awsome outcome Morton , glad for you as I have been following this one closely .

This is me on the side discusion here , I am confident the outcome will be good as the seller here has been in constant communications from day one , the scope is in transit and hopefully if OZ post dont stuff up and will probably see my scope about the same time you money arrives .

This just goes to show how good Paypal is , and on a side note I would not like to be this scammer , Paypal have just let some VERY hungry dogs out ,,, with his scent all over him , sweet justice comming .

Brian.

Originally Posted by MortonH

I think this is exactly what is happening in some cases.

I imagine the sales activity is based solely on how people update/close their ads. No way for the mods to verify any of that but at least you have a quick link to their ads and can do your own detective work. That's what raised my current suspicions.