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  #41  
Old 23-09-2005, 08:49 PM
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Starkler (Geoff)
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Lets not let this thread degenerate into a slanging match please or we'll have to lock the thread.

FWIW, I think two days to ship an item isnt such a terrible thing, unless the dealer promised otherwised. My job has a customer service component and I find the most important things are to communicate re any delays or issues and to always do what you say you will do.
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  #42  
Old 23-09-2005, 09:28 PM
westsky
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Geoff ,it's not my intention to get into a slanging match, it is my intention to correct wrong information.
this forum is the biggest thing to hit Australian astronomy since Adam was a boy, newbies come here to learn and gain an insight into what is the right scope for them,
When a statement is made about any item it should be correct.By giving the wrong info then you could be depriving a person of years of enjoyment from that item, they may well buy a much dearer item or worse still decide not to take up the hobby due to the increased cost that they think they may incur because of something they read here.I much prefer to see someone enter the hobby with the correct info.

The original issue was not the two days shipping but the two working days the dealer sat on the order before shipping with no communication.

cheers
David.
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  #43  
Old 23-09-2005, 09:38 PM
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Its just amazing that even when you falk out your own money you have no rights ! seems to me some people are getting away with murder !
Yeah will just keep taking It from the other side ! end of story .

ITS YOUR MONEY

Louie
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  #44  
Old 23-09-2005, 09:40 PM
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Rodstar (Rod)
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I just discovered this thread, and the various comments of others about defamation laws. I provided an advice only today to a company in relation to a defamation issue, and have been involved in defamation cases in the past in my legal practice.

At the risk of contradicting some other comments appearing before me:

1. A defamatory statement is a written or oral statement which contains a defamatory imputation.

2. A defamatory statement against an individual will normally relate to their character; a defamatory statement against a company will normally relate to the ethical standards, trustworthiness, or competence of a company.

3. For someone to bring legal proceedings for defamation, they would firstly have to write a letter to the offender seeking a retraction. In this letter, they would need to:

(a) identify the statement which is allegedly defamatory
(b) identify the audience (noting that is must be a third party - ie, you cannot defame someone to their face, unless someone else is watching!)
(c) identify the defamatory imputation underlying the statement.

4. If the retraction is forthcoming, the offended party will not normally be able to bring proceedings because (at least under section 14 of the Defamation Act NSW) a claim will fail where the comments are unlikely to be believed, and a retraction would normally undermine the public's acceptance of the impugned statement.

5. Unlike most other torts, you do not need to demonstrate actual damage to be entitled to compensation. The court will award damages for a defamatory statement on its face. Evidence of economic loss may be another head of damages also awarded, if loss or loss of a chance is demonstrated in the evidence before the court.

6. It is not strictly speaking correct to say that a true statement is not defamatory. In court proceedings, once it has been shown that a defamatory statement has been made, it is then a defence to demonstrate that the statement is true.

7. As defamation requires "publication" (whether by delivering an oral statement, email or document), the applicable law will almost certainly be the place where the third party hears or reads the statement. Thus, if I send a letter from Australia to the Jakarta Herald criticising an Indonesian judge by name, and this is held to be defamatory, it would actionable by the Indonesian judge in Indonesia under Indonesian law as the audience of the newspaper is the Indonesian public (Now, I wonder how fair that trial would be??!!).

8. When I say something to the effect of, "I hate X. I think his policies will bring Australia into ruin", I am making a statement of my own beliefs. I am not asserting some general truth about X, and so I am not defaming X. Compare this with the statement, "X is having an improper relationship with the Speaker of the House". This second statement is asserting a truth about X that is true for all people. It is clearly defamatory. If you have a look at the Letters to the Editor section of a newspaper, you will see that most letters fall into the first category. These are entirely safe and non-contentious. Compare this with Latham's diaries. If he is put to proof about some of the matters he asserts as fact in his book about the character of others around him, in my view he may be in some difficulty (notice I personalised that statement).

Turning to the question of posts on this forum, I note the following:

1. Each person is clearly posting their own views. Mike and the other moderators have never represented that they agree with the views expressed by others, and so I cannot see how a claim against Mike et al could possible succeed. Any person properly advised would realise that such a claim must fail. (Mike, for abundant caution, you may wish to spell out somewhere on the site that the comments posted on the site should be read as being the opinions of individual posters, and should not be inferred in any way to be the views of the moderators).

2. So long as when each person posts about a company or individual, they make it clear that they are merely expressing their personal opinion, no problems.

3. If someone is offended, there will be an opportunity to retract before litigation commences, and a retraction will almost always be the better part of valour (to mix metaphors slightly).

In short (at the end of a long post), chill out everyone!
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  #45  
Old 23-09-2005, 09:42 PM
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iceman (Mike)
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Rod is a legend!
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  #46  
Old 23-09-2005, 09:48 PM
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Communication goes a long way to providing a good service, and a sign of respect from the business to show that they actually appreciate you giving them the $$.

I think the best sign a business can show how good their service is as a whole, is the way they deal with any dispute that arrises, this will show their true attitude and respect toward it's customers.

[edit] I would be more than happy to retract any statement that has offended.
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  #47  
Old 23-09-2005, 10:17 PM
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h0ughy (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Rod is a legend!

Are we talking mythical here Mike or real life ridgey didge Aussie superhero
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  #48  
Old 23-09-2005, 11:50 PM
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gaa_ian (Ian)
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So Trev ... have you got a new scope yet ?
Getting out under a clear dark sky with a BIG scope is the cure for most Ill's
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  #49  
Old 24-09-2005, 01:04 AM
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janoskiss (Steve H)
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Rod may be a legend but sheesh that last post of his hurt my brain... (and I only skimmed once 1/2 way thru it).
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  #50  
Old 24-09-2005, 02:03 AM
johnno
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Hi All,
Just my 2 cents,
I ordered a pair of binoculars from Centre.net.au in Melbourne YESTERDAY AFTERNOON,I rang them first and asked how long for delivery,usually about 2 to 3 days was the reply,I was amazed to find them here in the Hunter Valley TODAY,at around 3.30 pm.
Thats about as good as it can get.
Regards.John
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  #51  
Old 24-09-2005, 07:39 AM
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Roger Davis
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David, the remark was not aimed at you, but at the incredible fact that there is life after astronomy.
A week ago I sent a pair of binoculars from here to Rosebud by Oz Post. I was informed by the recipient that he hadn't yet received them on Thursday. I tried to locate the parcel for him at three postal centres, but without luck. The attitude of the Postal staff at my local PO was "we didn't do it", tell me do you think that is good service? They didn't ask "what can we do to help?" they went immediately onto the defensive, as most people do. Now there is a complaints form that I have registered with Oz Post.
Re the EQ5 mounts, only three weeks ago I had an EQ5 brought in with the RA seized, and that was straight from the supplier. That was number 6 for the year. You have been very lucky with your mounts, I am happy for you, but happy for me who gets stuck with duds I am not. It means over an hour of disassembly, cleaning off the glue (sorry, your grease) and then reassembly.
Don't teach Grandma how to suck eggs, as my Grandpa used to say: If you can't suck seed suck eggs. (This is meant with humour, not serious so it is not libelous nor slanderous. :-)
Sorry I resurrected the thread, but like our Saviour the action seems to have created quite an uproar. Obviously things still needed to be said.
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