NBN Myths Busted

[mishku]

This technology comes into it's own in chronic disease management. A ludicrous proportion of folks now have chronic disease(s) that require seriously costly investigations. Many (most?) conditions require more sophisticated analysis than a simple "where does it hurt", and take a multidisciplinary team to manage or treat.

If you consider the sheer amount of data that comes back from the path lab with a single full blood panel, it would be seriously inefficient to share that information over the phone, professional to professional. Consider a chronic cardiac condition, where your GP needs to monitor biomarkers in the blood, as well as regularly view a series of medical images. Something like images from cardiac catheterisation get to be a decent size if they're real-time images, and you can't simply explain, professional to professional "that there's a smudgy bit there near the ventricular wall". My GP now uses digital xray technology, which means that he can see me, send me round to radiology, and then have me back almost instantly to interpret the results of my xray.

There are several key advantages here - firstly, speed of information sharing. Secondly, as the health professional (GP, specialist, allied health) contributes to the digital medical record, it allows for a more comprehensive patient history. Imagine the possibilities of being able to refer a patient from your general practise to a dermatologist, not only with a letter, but a series of images that track the changes of the patient's skin over time? Thirdly, imagine if you're in a rural location, if they can get some portable imaging equipment and run a regular clinic near you (or using the specialty equipment already located closer to home) - the speed and efficacy of information sharing between practitioners will be vastly improved. You might not need to be seeing your city based specialist quite so often if your GP can review and consult with the specialist based on the more detailed information they can now more easily share.

M

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

My local Doc is flat out seeing patients as it is & have a sneaking suspicion putting a webcam in his office would not allow him to make more hours in the day to see even more patients.... more front-line medico's I suggest is what is really needed.

I'd also be interested in hearing from any GP's on how clinical presentation of a patient, who is not in the clinic could actually work. eg: poke youself here? does it hurt?

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by mishku

...

If you consider the sheer amount of data that comes back from the path lab with a single full blood panel, it would be seriously inefficient to share that information over the phone, professional to professional. .....

M

Well, I was being a bit glib......and you have raised valid points...

I still doubt you'd need a NBN to simply email or VPN the few megabytes of data you mention..and as you describe... is residing on a LAN rather than WAN system.

Sure back office functions can be improved. Yet I remain unconvinced clinical consultations with patients would be viable for anything other than
complaints requiring the proverbial "take two asprin and call me in the morning"

[mishku]

Hahaha then I argue it's probably good you're not a clinician

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Well, I was being a bit glib......and you have raised valid points...

I still doubt you'd need a NBN to simply email or VPN the few megabytes of data you mention..and as you describe... is residing on a LAN rather than WAN system.

Sure back office functions can be improved. Yet I remain unconvinced clinical consultations with patients would be viable for anything other than
complaints requiring the proverbial "take two asprin and call me in the morning"

[Ray?]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

For one the NBN isn't compulsory though why you would not use it when it can get you out of the grid-lock and allow you to work remotely from home saving on onerous petrol bills or traveling on the train for that matter. The cost of fibre connection is comparable with the old costs of broadband. As stated you don't need to change to the higher speed unless you want to it isn't being forced on us and seeing as it won't cost more than what we pay now I can't understand why it is such a problem for anyone to accept.

My understanding is that the copper lines will be killed off and the only option will be the NBN. Also, if you don't choose to have it installed when it comes around, when the copper option goes, you'll be up for a heafty installation bill. That to me reads as compulsory.

I think working remotely is the biggest furphy ever put forward. We've had the opportunity to work remotely for years, but it's simply not in the culture of the majority of organisations to accept (someone working from home is clearly slacking off etc). For some it isn't even practical, as the work involves direct interraction with numerous people (shops, services etc), where digital face time just doesn't work.

As for costs, there is much debate about that at the moment and to recover the enormous cost and cover profit, someone has to pay.

Cheers

Ray

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by Ray?

My understanding is that the copper lines will be killed off and the only option will be the NBN. Also, if you don't choose to have it installed when it comes around, when the copper option goes, you'll be up for a heafty installation bill. That to me reads as compulsory.

I think working remotely is the biggest furphy ever put forward. We've had the opportunity to work remotely for years, but it's simply not in the culture of the majority of organisations to accept (someone working from home is clearly slacking off etc). For some it isn't even practical, as the work involves direct interraction with numerous people (shops, services etc), where digital face time just doesn't work.

As for costs, there is much debate about that at the moment and to recover the enormous cost and cover profit, someone has to pay.

Cheers

Ray

But it wont cost anything initially except the money paid by the government you will be able to go on as usual telstra and the other phone companies have agreed to transfer their customers to the fibre optic network so everything will go on as it is now the only difference is that your phone and internet will go over fibre instead of copper. I really don't understand everyone's problem this is just changing from copper to fibre bringing our telecomunications network into line with most other countries in the world. Taking Telstra's monopoly on the network away which is a good thing in my thinking

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

But it wont cost anything initially except the money paid by the government....

Won't cost anything?? You have to be kidding.

Every fortnight the government takes a good slab of my wages and gives it to people & projects I don't care about or want implemented.

It's called taxation and costs me... and quite a few others..dearly.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Won't cost anything?? You have to be kidding.

Every fortnight the government takes a good slab of my wages and gives it to people & projects I don't care about or want implemented.

It's called taxation and cost me... and quite a few others..dearly.

The video states a 7% return, so the long term benefits are that it won't cost us much. It is not in the best interests in business because 7% is not enough but this is wholesale eventually it will be paid back.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

The video states a 7% return, so the long term benefits are that it won't cost us much. It is not in the best interests in business because 7% is not enough but this is wholesale eventually it will be paid back.

7% on tens of billions of $ is actually pretty good ( 2x to 3x the cash rate in many economies).

I'd suggest business would be laying fibre already if there was a viable case.

Many $A billions of my and other taxpayer money is being thrown at this "political thought bubble" with fingers crossed it will make money...and who cares if it doesn't....there are plenty more taxpayer dollars out there to bail it out if it doesn't.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

7% on tens of billions of $ is actually pretty good ( 2x to 3x the cash rate in many ecomomies).

I'd suggest business would be laying fibre already if there was a viable case.

Many $A billions of my and other taxpayer money is being thrown at this "political thought bubble" with fingers crossed it will make money...and who cares if it doesn't....there are plenty more taxpayer dollars out there to bail it out if it doesn't.

The problem with the market taking care of it is too many people would miss out as the market wont service costly locations leaving many people in the blackspots.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

The problem with the market taking care of it is too many people would miss out as the market wont service costly locations leaving many people in the blackspots.

Ah..it exists already. Telstra has a Universal Service Obligation.

The NBN business model is only viable as it requires the copper network to be be tossed in the bin via a no competition clause.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Ah..it exists already. Telstra has a Universal Service Obligation.

The NBN business model is only viable as it requires the copper network to be be tossed in the bin via a no competition clause.

This obligation only covers existing infrastructure and does not cover any future technology that Telstra would have installed. And I think many people in the middle of nowhere would argue that the Universal Service Obligation isn't worth the paper it is written on.

I think more open minded debate is required sadly I believe that political ideology is at the hub of this debate. The copper network is obsolete it costs more per year to keep it operational than it is worth it is failing.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

This obligation only covers existing infrastructure and does not cover any future technology that Telstra would have installed. And I think many people in the middle of nowhere would argue that the Universal Service Obligation isn't worth the paper it is on".....

So we have existing legislation that is being ignored? What's to say NBN Co. ...or who ever buys it out....Won't ignore similar legislation?

Sure high speed data is nice, but at the risk of being repetitive, life can go on quite well without it.

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by Ray?

I think working remotely is the biggest furphy ever put forward. We've had the opportunity to work remotely for years, but it's simply not in the culture of the majority of organisations to accept (someone working from home is clearly slacking off etc). For some it isn't even practical, as the work involves direct interraction with numerous people (shops, services etc), where digital face time just doesn't work.

Cheers

Ray

Who likes the idea of Peter Ward working remotely?

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

This obligation only covers existing infrastructure and does not cover any future technology that Telstra would have installed. And I think many people in the middle of nowhere would argue that the Universal Service Obligation isn't worth the paper it is written on.

I think more open minded debate is required sadly I believe that political ideology is at the hub of this debate. The copper network is obsolete it costs more per year to keep it operational than it is worth it is failing.

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

So we have existing legislation that is being ignored? What's to say NBN Co. ...or who ever buys it out....Won't ignore similar legislation?

Sure high speed data is nice, but at the risk of being repetitive, life can go on quite well without it.

This is where the problems start to arise. The legislation that has been put in place means that any new technology can only be implemented by NBN, it is their Non Compete clause. "I" cannot roll out some newer fancier technology that delivers twice the performance at half the price than NBN anytime in the future, it has to come through NBN.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

This is where the problems start to arise. The legislation that has been put in place means that any new technology can only be implemented by NBN, it is their Non Compete clause. "I" cannot roll out some newer fancier technology that delivers twice the performance at half the price than NBN anytime in the future, it has to come through NBN.

There is no newer fancier tech that delivers better performance than fibre optics.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

This is where the problems start to arise. The legislation that has been put in place means that any new technology can only be implemented by NBN, it is their Non Compete clause. "I" cannot roll out some newer fancier technology that delivers twice the performance at half the price than NBN anytime in the future, it has to come through NBN.

That is true if it needs to be part of the NBN, but if your new technology has all the commercial market issues dealt with it then it can be considered. It would not be advisable to place a mish mash of technologies otherwise it would get out of control.

Apart from Copper, Fibre and Radio, I can't think of any new medium to run data through so even if a new technology is available it will need the checks and balances in place ready for commercial operation before implemented by the NBN. This is mentioned during question time at the end of the video based on CSIRO development of a new technology of greater speed.

[Ray?]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

There is no newer fancier tech that delivers better performance than fibre optics.

And so they have said of many a technology and been proven very, very, wrong.

Cheers

Ray

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by Ray?

And so they have said of many a technology and been proven very, very, wrong.

Cheers

Ray

Maybe Warren should have said at this moment
Cheers

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by astroron

Maybe Warren should have said at this moment
Cheers

Thanks Ron that is exactly what I meant I don't believe that anything yet is even on the horizon

[bojan]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

Thanks Ron that is exactly what I meant I don't believe that anything yet is even on the horizon

Very much true.

With only 1dB loss per 10km, it can't be matched with anything else.