What's wrong with copper?

[Osirisra (Ken)]

I Shudder at the thought of the agony that was to be stuck on a pair gain, I'm so glad those days are over.

Bring on the FIBRE!

...oh and it only some 10km away from Geraldton at the moment

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by avandonk

The cost to the taxpayer is 26 billion dollars total not 43 billion dollars.

Bert

Sure there is massive waste of the money the government compulsorily aquires from those who actually have a job....they have a habit of giving it to projects... and people you'd probably not normally give a cent to.

Apart from the *really bad* roads ...Sydney airport: gateway to planet Oz....still doesn't have a CATIII ILS (esoteric point...but it costs Airlines a motza every year)

Assuming private enterprise does chip in: then $2300 per tax payer. Sorry I still don't see how this enhances my quality of life.

[avandonk]

Peter just hold for two thousand three hudred dollars. About one minute in a 747.

Bert

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by avandonk

Peter just hold for two thousand three hudred dollars. About one minute in a 747.

Bert

or 45 seconds in an A380.

[avandonk]

Heavy Peter you are clear for take off


Bert

[Moon (James)]

The cost to the taxpayer is 26 billion dollars total not 43 billion dollars.

It might be semantics, but the project capex cost is $43 billion. It's in the first paragraph of the exec summary in the implementation report. LINK

At some stage that all needs to be recovered from someone, with interest. 'Cost to taxpayer' figure could easily be manipulated.

James

[Peter Ward]

The report linked to above in interestng, in that it espouses " macro economic and social benefits" that "superfast" broadband would supply.

I don't see it.

How does the ability to dump terabytes of data in someone's lap in short order going to improve their lot?

Things that might improve my life:

Better health services (a radiologist reporting on my X-rays from Pakistan doesn't fit this model )
Better education (don't read: more school halls)
Better/Cheaper transport
Cheaper energy
Clean environment

$2300 to $4300 to change my copper phone line to optical fibre?

Aye carrumba...

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

OK this could spiral into a politik type debate.... but: why should the great unwashed be forced to abandon thier copper wire phone connections?

BTW I'd like this to be technical....not party political.

Well that's the way you've taken it Peter - but that's inevitable really.
It goes without saying that your list above is way more necessary than the ability to download data quickly. But that wasn't the original question was it? Copper v's Optical Fibre...bugger it, who cares?

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by dugnsuz

Well that's the way you've taken it Peter - but that's inevitable really.
It goes without saying that your list above is way more necessary than the ability to download data quickly. But that wasn't the original question was it? Copper v's Optical Fibre...bugger it, who cares?

Yep. Guilty as charged.

But I still haven't seen a good argument as to why I must be forced to accept optical fibre (somewhere between $2300 to $4300+ real cost) to make a phone call.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Sometimes you have to move foward with technology if we throughout history had resisted change we would still be using telegraph technology or the Pony Express for every change that has come there have been people who have resisted new technology only for that new tech to be vital to the society. I don't think anyone would say that Copper wire telephone network has been a waste of money it has brought the world to our desktops of our very homes but it is getting too slow to do the things we can do with the internet. Switching to Fibre is the same as when we as a nation built the Copper network and if we could be a fly on the wall when it was being built and if we had had the internet then we would have seen a similar forum discusion as this one arguing that it was a waste of money. And in the future there will be another discusion the same as this one when the next big Technological change comes along to make Fibre obsolete we can only at present guess at the possiblities that fibre can provide I am sure when the first copper network was laid no-one could have invisioned that we would be discusing it on the WWW from all parts of the Globe instantly. Tech usually doesn't look like magic when it blends seemlessly into our lives but to someone who doesn't have contact with it, it looks exactly like magic. We just dont see the magic because we live with it every day.

[Octane (Humayun)]

Let's get back on track -- Peter's not arguing about Internet over fibre. He's asking why it's going to cost us taxpayers between $2,300 and $4,300 to make phone calls.

H

[michaellxv (Michael)]

Because the NBN is about much more than phone calls. It's a technology that scoops up all our current communications and provides for future ones we haven't thought of yet.

In simple business $$ terms no private company could justify the spend and expect a reasonable return. It's the type of bold investment that we need governments to make from time to time to provide all the tangible economic benefits as well as the intangible social benfits.

[Octane (Humayun)]

I should have mentioned I was being facetious. : P

H

[michaellxv (Michael)]

, there hows that. My comments still stand.

[Trixie (Carey)]

Only satellite where I am, and unfortunately unlikely to change and I would be happy to pay for any sort of ADSL! Our equipment just turned 3 years old (ie out of warrenty) and promptly broke - the water ingress problem everyone seems to be getting and the cost to repair 800 bucks plus labour! To upgrade the equipment it will cost 3000 dollars. All this for 500kbps download speeds (if we are lucky).

[Moon (James)]

Carey
If you don't have ADSL today, there is a very good chance you are outside the 93% of homes that will get fiber.... Why? Because 92% of homes can get ADSL today. You could get lucky and be in the 92%-93% range that will get a decent service for the first time ever.
But never fear, NBN will launch two brand new Ka band satellites for you. enjoy.
James

[Kal (Andrew)]

For the last two decades the Australian government has promoted the lowering of prices through competition, quite understandable considering we live in a capitalist society. Now the answer seems to lie in a monopoly whereby competing copper (including complete infrastructure from telstra and optus cable services, with the exception of pay tv services) will be removed.

The problem with copper, Peter, is that it is a competitor

[taxman (Matt)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Better health services (a radiologist reporting on my X-rays from Pakistan doesn't fit this model http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/..../winking70.gif )

You, know, I really wasn't going to reply to this (arguing on the internet being pointless etc) but this type of thinly veiled racism is just so wrong. I have left it for a day or two to think about it and it really needs to be said.

Peter, this is the comment of a nasty fool who should be ashamed of themself. Why is the nationality of a heath professional accredited by the same system as white doctors at all relevant?

As the husband of a professional of Fillipino descent, I have seen first hand this type of nascent racism time and again, with some idiots even flat out asking whether she'd married an Australian to get her citizenship.

Next time at least keep your "rational" comments to yourself - free speech aside, you have no right to sully the competence of ANYONE solely on the basis of something as irrelevant as where they or their parents were born.

[Kal (Andrew)]

Matt, the implication of racism stems from your personal interpretation of the comment. As an example I can honestly state from experience that the I.T support that I have personally received from Australian based call centers is not even in the same class as support I have received from 'foreign based' support centers. This is not a racist judgement. It is a fact based on my own experience.

/offtopic

[taxman (Matt)]

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Foreign based support centers are used because they are cheap. The early days of internet domestic call centers had the same level of support - operators earning 18K a year to read a script. Other places have much cheaper labor costs so telcos and the like can get this 18K down to 5 or 6 instead. As soon as you go outside that script these operators often do not have the ability to assist, nor is it really their job. This is a fault of the service provider, not the individual.

A professional acredited in Australia has passed rigorous examinations to be admitted into the local college. To deride the ability of someone who has passed this process based on their nationality is wrong and I will not accept this is my interpretation - it is apriori wrong.

I have noticed however that "Your interpretation" is a favorite saying for those that are called to account for being interpreted as having said exactly what they meant in the first place.

Originally Posted by Kal

Matt, the implication of racism stems from your personal interpretation of the comment. As an example I can honestly state from experience that the I.T support that I have personally received from Australian based call centers is not even in the same class as support I have received from 'foreign based' support centers. This is not a racist judgement. It is a fact based on my own experience.

/offtopic