Concerning the EU (Electric Universe) Theory

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by renormalised

EU's data is not just out of date in some cases, it's patently wrong...full stop. Much of it isn't even science.

Yep .. 'faith based' subject.

Cheers

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

Great thread sorry a bit late to the party. I must make a confession Alex has converted me, I have even started a new search of the skies with a new filter trying to image the cosmic fridges that NASA have kept hidden from us all these years. Just you wait Alex is going to have the last luagh when we show the world our cosmic fridges, everyone knows that where there are fridges there are fridge magbets and where theres magnets there is PLASMA.

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by KenGee

Great thread sorry a bit late to the party. I must make a confession Alex has converted me, I have even started a new search of the skies with a new filter trying to image the cosmic fridges that NASA have kept hidden from us all these years. Just you wait Alex is going to have the last luagh when we show the world our cosmic fridges, everyone knows that where there are fridges there are fridge magbets and where theres magnets there is PLASMA.

G'Day Kenny;
As a devotee, I reckon you should do a regular post in the Radio Astronomy and Spectroscopy Forum to keep us updated, (empirically speaking), on the presence of Synchrotron radiation.
Should start with plerions, (eg: the Crab Nebula), or M87's jets - plenty of low hanging cherries to pick there.
Cheers
PS: Let's not take this further. I'm desperately trying to not spam up good posts. I'm obviously not succeeding (starting with myself). Sorry Carl - couldn't resist it. Cheers.

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

Just a very brief comment and observation here.

Several years ago, perhaps 15?, I borrowed a book that discussed some new theory about the formation of galaxies etc. I thought it seemed interesting, so sat down to read it. Within the first chapter, the author had taken so many leaps of faith, extrapolating his thoughts from simple observations, like how simple static electricity on a comb can overwealm the gravitation of the Earth, to apply this on a galactic scale, where the net charge is now likely to be very close to zero, and yet has no problem in maintaining that the effect would overwealm the effects of billions of solar masses....hmmm. There were more leaps of faith in the early parts of this book than I could accept....

I returned this book after reading no more than a couple of chapters as I figured I had better things to do with my life than waste it on a load a tripe, after all, I still had to organise my toenail clipping collection but size!

In hindsight, I believe this may have been an "EU" book.

It seems the "EU" theory fits in will with "ID" and the Moon landing conspiracy.....eeeeeW! To me, they all seem to have a similar grounding in "evidence".

[avandonk]

A very good hand waving type argument would say that you need very high electrical and magnetic fields with a high concentration of charged particles of any sort for these effects to be a major force behind the Universe's evolution.

The Universe's matter and charged particles are very thinly spread indeed on average. One of the major conundrums in cosmology is where the slight gravitational anomalies came from to form the first stars and then galaxies. Quantum fluctuations just after the BB anyone?

The only force that is left is gravity at any large distances. This force acts to bring all these bits together to form stars and then the more exotic collections of matter that then show massive outpourings of energy.

Most of the stupid arguments in science are started by people who are trying to extrapolate way outside their field with their own narrow expert view of reality. They just do not understand the paucity of their own knowledge and become obsessive about defending the indefensible.

When ever I have been shown to be wrong by others I have always been thankful as I did not waste my time and effort in self delusion.

The really evil thing though is when these deluded people then convince the non scientific that they are correct by the intensity of their zealotry.

History is littered with the blind and ignorant leading the blind and uneducated.

Peer review though not perfect is the best arbiter. It has never failed yet to agree with the evidence in the long run.

Bert

[renormalised (Carl)]

Bert, you hit the nail right on the head, as usual

[CraigS]

Thanks Bert. Nicely put. Great words.
Much appreciated.

Cheers & Rgds

[avandonk]

Originally Posted by renormalised

Bert, you hit the nail right on the head, as usual

Carl many years ago a colleague told me that a leading exponent of a scientific discipline that had been one of his undergraduate lecturers had done more for his field by dying than he ever did in life as he spent all his time blocking papers that did not agree with his outdated deluded theories.

Scientist are fallible humans.

Peer review keeps us honest eventually!



Bert

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by avandonk

Carl many years ago a colleague told me that a leading exponent of a scientific discipline that had been one of his undergraduate lecturers had done more for his field by dying than he ever did in life as he spent all his time blocking papers that did not agree with his outdated deluded theories.

Scientist are fallible humans.

Peer review keeps us honest eventually!



Bert

I think in this case, the proponents have chosen the wrong peers to review their work. They appear to have avoided Astronomer journals etc (probably to avoid exposure).
Cheers

[renormalised (Carl)]

You're right about that Bert...if it wasn't for peer review, despite its known failings, we'd be up to our necks in all sorts of nonsense. It might not seem fair at times, but it keeps the rigour of the scientific community stable and to the forefront.

[sjastro]

The Universe's matter and charged particles are very thinly spread indeed on average. One of the major conundrums in cosmology is where the slight gravitational anomalies came from to form the first stars and then galaxies. Quantum fluctuations just after the BB anyone?

It's due to variations in the energy density of the plasma caused by temperature differences in the early Universe up to the period of recombination.
This is been measured as E-mode polarization in the CMB.

Regions of higher energy density (=lower temperature) can result in the formation of matter. It's one of the reasons why the CMB is anisotropic.

It's ironical our PC friends reject this despite the role that plasma plays in the formation of matter in the early history of the Universe.

Regards

Steven

[renormalised (Carl)]

Yes, it's a contradiction isn't it, Steven. The one thing they have this zealous belief in and it's the one thing they completely reject when it comes to the early Universe!!!

[avandonk]

I feel truly happy that there are many young people here that know more than me. It gives me great hope for the future after I am dead.

The only thing that old age bestows is a bit of wisdom! That fleeting thing that stands above knowledge.

Or is wisdom the application of knowledge with long experience?

Bert

[CraigS]

Edward deBono wrote, ( quote from "Textbook of Wisdom")

"'Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise'.

This well known quotation is itself a useful piece of wisdom. The 'wise' in the quotation refers to knowledge. There are times when it is better not to know everything.

The saying could be misinterpreted on the basis that it might indeed be better to be stupid and happy than wise and anxious. The whole point about wisdom is that, used effectively, it reduces your anxiety. The notion of 'stupid and happy' only refers to a very stable world in which nothing ever goes wrong. If you are lucky enough to find such a world, then stay there. Otherwise, you need wisdom to cope with difficulties."

I'd like to think that as I age, I will lose anxiety. I'm not sure I am, but if that happens, then I look forward to aging !

Cheers & Regards

[avandonk]

As someone who has worked in science for over forty years I would rather fret about my lack of knowledge than the uncertainty of my environment.

Wisdom or knowledge to me has never elicited fear or anxiousness. De Bono is a bit of a wanker. He has a solution without a problem!

My father taught me that you must learn all you can about the world around you as your survival relies on it. Fear is the emotion that is the worst. Fear is generally stimulated by ignorance!

A simple fact for your consideration. The top 1% in the USA own 90% of the wealth. The top 1% in China own 90% of the wealth. The only difference between the USA and China is the ratio is getting worse in the USA. In other words the poor are getting poorer in the USA!

I have been to the Synchrotron in Chicago a four billion dollar machine a bit over kilometre in diameter. The Klystrons driving the Positrons were three stories high! When the US is good it is very very good. When it is bad it is horrid!

Bert

[CraigS]

That's cool.

The US is certainly a mixed bag, too. The vast amounts spent on the search for knowledge unfortunately, (in the US), doesn't necessarily fund the fight against ignorance.
I'm not sure why it doesn't .. but the rest of us certainly seem to benefit from their investment !

Cheers

[renormalised (Carl)]

It's the old adage, Craig, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". For all too many, you can give them the information they need to learn, but if they don't want to learn they won't listen to you. What makes it worse is when you get ideas that appeal to their sense of "reality"...ideas that have been made palatable to their "common sense" or that resonate with them in some fashion, once they get them into their heads and have them confirmed by others with the same delusion, no matter what you try to do, you can't shift them. It's religious in nature. Once that sets in, the only way for them to change is if something major happens that completely takes the wind out of their sails.

The US is not the best country in the world to hold up as a paragon of educational virtue or common sense in its truest meaning. You only have to look at the society and the way it conducts itself, the standard of general knowledge and even of specific knowledge in the country. They are fortunate in that they can throw huge amounts of money at problems because in that country (as in many others) it's a case of so many having to rely on the very few to sustain their knowledge base. Unfortunately, they are failing at that, miserably, because ideologies that have no business being allowed to promulgate in a knowledge driven, secular society are infiltrating their entire system...education, government etc. Belief and blind faith can be very dangerous things.

[CraigS]

A la EU/PC, Intelligent Design, etc, huh ?

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by CraigS

A la EU/PC, Intelligent Design, etc, huh ?

Yep

[Mr. Pressure]

Would you have a lot wiser or a little happier?

Would you like to be lot of wiser or little bit happier?


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