Dirty Snowball Model V Plasma - Comets - Page 3

Jarvamundo (Alex) · #41 11-03-2010, 10:19 AM

Adam i also agree. There is now enough genuine peer-reviewed information here now for anyone to follow...

My enthusiasm in argument was due to the ad hom dismissal, without any comments on the specifics of the science. You will see from the first post i was just a layman exploring, then it quickly degenerated into a Velikofsky Ad Hom attack (of which i never mentioned or even studied in depth that author). It is unreleated to this peer-reviewed paper. This is just bad science. I never used this technique in the history of the post.

I really dont see how a man (Velikovsky) who was born in the 1800's and who published his work in 1950's has any relation to a genuine IEEE plasma physics 2007 paper.

My comments were purely of this peer-reviewed IEEE paper, and supporting NASA references, always thoroughly linked for verification. It is not my theory, i have not connection to it.

Might i acknowledge OutbackManyEP, who atleast took the time to comment on the specifics, and explore the science. I also learnt a thing or two from him about comet tails, and the research community... I also appreciated the private messages of support. cheers. I will say no more.

Outbackmanyep · #42 11-03-2010, 12:29 PM

Hi Alex,
I guess we can just wait for Rosetta and see what happens from there!

I attended a talk from Dr. Bryan Gaensler last year on this
http://www.australasianscience.com.a...01Gaensler.pdf

It was an amazing talk which was backed up by observational evidence that was clearly understandable.

Cheers!

Outbackmanyep · #43 11-03-2010, 12:49 PM

Alex,
I have a question brought up by one of the comets-ml members.

"I expect one piece of evidence lacking, given the proposal that comet jets
are caused by electric discharge, is the absence of emission spectra
characteristic of such discharges. For comets, we generally only see
emission spectra from the faster-moving, more tenuous gaseous fraction
activated by irradiation from the Sun and solar wind. The claims are that
the electrical discharges are most intense at or near the comet nucleus and
are so great as to lead to 'electric discharge machining' of the surface
with the jets comprising excavated material moving along the electric field
lines or arcs. So what is their explanation for the lack of emission
spectra in and around these jets?"

Rob_K · #44 11-03-2010, 02:22 PM

For anyone reading this thread, don’t be drawn in by Alex’s ‘smooth’ talk and reference to published papers. Science is full of anomolies where one set of observational data contradicts another. What science does is try to understand and reconcile the anomolies, gradually refining or altering or discarding the model. What Alex and his associates do is start off with a "theory" (in this case the "Electric Universe" of which "Plasma Comets" are a part), then comb the published data for anything that will support it. Not only that, they often put their own interpretation on published data, not necessarily the conclusions or intent of the authors. Data that does not support it is ignored.

It’s a tried and true method of gaining initiates who are ill-equipped to discriminate between science and pseudo-science, because it is couched in the language of science and seems superficially logical (but not always, LOL). The dissemination of these sorts of "theories" is a phenomenon of the web because it gives these people a platform – none of it comes from science. The Electric Universe is a model that, as Les so eloquently put it, does not pass the Occham's Razor test. No-one is doing Electric Universe science, all they are doing is manipulating data to give the impression of doing science.

To those who recognised that there was a disturbing ‘evangelical’ tone in this thread, well done! The Electric Universe people have their own little world where they fight imaginary battles against the stupidity of the "establishment". Check this thread out (and I have a full transcript if anyone decides to clean it up!).

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=33049&sid=fb098 c0371641d47a369e6ac9c55c0a4

The missionary element is clear, viz the respondent who states: "But, good luck in your efforts. I guess that if maybe you open one mind, it is worth the effort." Funny how open means close in the wacky world of the Electric Universe!

Do we really want this stuff on Ice in Space? Because if we allow the Electric Universe to gain a foothold here, we may as well make it open slather for "Creation Science" and all the other loopy movements out there on the web.

Cheers -

Outbackmanyep · #45 11-03-2010, 02:34 PM

Well put Rob_K!

I have never seen evidence of EDM in nature, so that must go a long way to putting the ? on the EU.

Jarvamundo (Alex) · #46 11-03-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackmanyep

Alex,
I have a question brought up by one of the comets-ml members.

"I expect one piece of evidence lacking, given the proposal that comet jets
are caused by electric discharge, is the absence of emission spectra
characteristic of such discharges. For comets, we generally only see
emission spectra from the faster-moving, more tenuous gaseous fraction
activated by irradiation from the Sun and solar wind. The claims are that
the electrical discharges are most intense at or near the comet nucleus and
are so great as to lead to 'electric discharge machining' of the surface
with the jets comprising excavated material moving along the electric field
lines or arcs. So what is their explanation for the lack of emission
spectra in and around these jets?"

Interesting question... Can we maybe discuss somewhere else? I suspect the answer involves the insulating nature of plasma double-layers, A NASA video i posted on this forum explains this nature very well. I said i wouldn't post here any more, and its clear it's only annoying the conservatives... For those with an eye for detail will notice.. i actually joined IIS first, and regularly support IIS and buy compendiums, i haven't once assassinated or dismissed anyones character, beyond the terms of service of this site, only the science presented (along with the good scientific nature of OutbackManyEP posts)...

i am also genuinely interested in attending such talks as you have mentioned OutbackManyEP, The paper you presented says alot about magnetism, i sincerely recommend watching that nasa video, I'm not sure if you also studied electrical engineering, butyou will see where the magnetism comes from. Will PM you about attending.