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  #41  
Old 25-06-2010, 05:10 PM
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White Rabbit
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No you wont have to rerecord your pe every night only if you change you set up from a larger or smaller scope. If you scope is balance properly it wont matter where the weights are at any given moment so you pec rec will still be ok.
I pack mine down all the time and have only ever recorded one pec file.
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  #42  
Old 25-06-2010, 05:29 PM
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peter_4059 (Peter)
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Here's mine from last weekend.
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  #43  
Old 20-10-2011, 02:45 PM
swannies1983 (Dan)
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I've attemptig to guide using PhD and i was wondering if I could get some feedback.

This is my setup
Mount: EQ6
Scope: 8" Newt (f/6)
Guide scope: 60mm refractor (f/11.7)
Guide camera: unmodded toucam
Imaging camera: unmodded Canon 400D
Guiding method: Shoestring. ST4 input is on handcontroller, not on mount.
Guide camera image scale: 1.65 arcsec/pixel
Imaging camera scale: 0.98 arcsec/pixel

I don't have that much DEC backlash but I tend to either guide NORTH or SOUTH in dec. I do run into some issues when in DEC AUTO mode.

My problem is that I'm starting to get drift in RA. This generally only happens when I have DEC guiding off. Take the two shots for example. The first shows guiding with DEC guiding in AUTO mode. I still have to sort out the brain settings to try and reduce the oscillations. I also sometimes experience large jumps in DEC, which also impacts RA. I assume this is a backlash issue?

In the second example, DEC guiding is switched off. There is some drift in DEC (bad ploar alignment), but you can also see drift in RA. I'm not sure why this is the case. PhD does send pulses but it's just not moving the graph back to the central line. I assume this is what PhD is supposed to do? Any ideas?

Also, I'm not up-to-scratch in knowing how much I need to try and reduce the oscillations based on imaging scales. Would my guiding (based on the first picture), be ok with those oscillations? I guess I should just try some pictures and see how they turn out.
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  #44  
Old 21-10-2011, 04:27 PM
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g__day (Matthew)
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Its a good idea if folk always post image scale - arc seconds per pixel. I might guide at +/- 2 pixels, but if each pixel is natively 0.44 arc seconds (then I bin 2*2) - and seeing is really below 3 arc seconds a pixel - I won't see any discernible drift or badness in a 30 minute sub typically as I am oscillating back and forth maybe an arc second - which can just be variances in the seeing for my night skies.
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  #45  
Old 21-10-2011, 07:12 PM
swannies1983 (Dan)
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I think that's a good idea Matthew. If it wasn't for a thread over on cloudynights (sorry, the link isn't working at the moment), I would still be pulling my hair out trying to get graphs similar to what has been posted in here. I am never going to achieve the "flatness" as shown in here because I'm using a guide scope with a focal length of 700mm.
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  #46  
Old 31-10-2011, 12:47 PM
swannies1983 (Dan)
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Has anyone had problems with overcorrections in DEC? I mean when guiding in either NORTH or SOUTH, not AUTO mode. I know you can change the aggressiveness in RA but not DEC. I have been informed that you can change the "aggressiveness" by first calibrating and then reducing the DEC guiding rate prior to guiding. Anyone tried this? I will try once I get a clear night.
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  #47  
Old 31-10-2011, 04:29 PM
pjphilli (Peter)
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Hi Dan

I also had problems with over correction in DEC about a year ago. A thread on Stark's forum covered this. It appears that some set ups have this problem when the DEC Algorithm is set for Low Pass Filter. I changed this
to Resisting Switching and the problem went. I usually set my DEC for a slight unguided drift in N direction and set the DEC guiding to Auto. For me this provides the best results. Hope this helps.

Cheers Peter
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  #48  
Old 31-10-2011, 04:39 PM
swannies1983 (Dan)
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I tried doing a search over Stark's but I couldn't find anything. I will try again.

It appears that I am already using "resist switching." Guiding in auto mode tended to produce worse results. I thought stiction might be a problem but I have recently regreased and set the worm gear so there's no binding. It's much smoother compared to what it was prior to the tune up as I did find the dreaded black "glue."

I will try a few different things tonight if the clouds clear.

Cheers
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  #49  
Old 31-10-2011, 11:08 PM
swannies1983 (Dan)
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I am outside trying a few different things but nothing appears to work. I have calibrated at a high guide rate (1x) and then dropped the guide rate down (0.2-0.5x) prior to guiding but it didn't solve the issue. I think it might be stiction(?) problem. I see that there are times that PhD tries sending a command but there is little movement and then all of a sudden I can hear the belt/motor "click," followed by a large correction, shooting the DEC line well above the 1 pixel line. There's no binding and I can move the DEC axis by turning the pulley/belt.
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  #50  
Old 01-11-2011, 12:33 PM
swannies1983 (Dan)
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I think I may have found the issue. Thanks to Chuck over on Stark's, he suggested that I check the belt system, making sure it was tight. There may have been some slippage causing the large jumps in DEC. Sure enough, there was a little slack so I tightened it up. It seems to have helped as movement wasn't as large after a few test runs. The graphs were much more stable and the RMS value was around 0.41 which is fairly good given that I'm guiding with an image scale of 1.44 arcsecs/pixel. I will try again tonight to see if it was just "pot luck." Silly me, as this is probably something I should have looked at earlier.
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  #51  
Old 03-11-2011, 08:30 AM
swannies1983 (Dan)
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I'm getting totally confused about what I should be looking at when guiding with PhD. Can anyone explain the attached graph? In blue, we have RA and in pink we have dx. I haven't included DEC/dy as I wasn't guiding in DEC for this period.

So the RA line is what we look at when determining our Osc index and RMS values. Going by my image scale, the RMS for the blue line is ~0.4, which is good for me because I'm guiding at 700mm. I have been informed that PhD is doing what it's supposed to be doing based on the RA line. However, my confusion is that if PhD is "guiding" correctly, why is there "drift" in dx (pink line), which I can confirm when looking at the star i.e. it's moving away from the crosshair?
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  #52  
Old 04-11-2011, 12:43 PM
pjphilli (Peter)
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Hi Dan

From your first para I assume that you had DEC guiding in the Brain turned OFF but you had trained PHD to guide in RA.

If this is the case then your graph is perfectly normal. It shows RA being guided well but as you are not guiding in DEC the red line is drifting up
in a steady manner. This is because your mount is not exactly polar aligned.
To use PHD effectively you first need to polar align your mount at least
approximately as if the DEC drift say up as in your case is excessive, PHD has a hard time continually bringing the rapid drift back to zero (ie guiding in DEC). This appears to be the symptom of your original problem.

I usually set the DEC drift so that is is slightly biased in one direction (say up as in your case). PHD then has no difficult in correcting this small drift and keeping the DEC guiding near the zero line. To reduce your current large drift you may use PHD to trim up your polar alignment.
Firstly chose a guide star fairly high up on the celestial equator. The move your mount's azimuth knobs say half a turn, noting the direction of movement. This will shift the guide star on your PHD screen out of PHD's guiding range so you will have to stop guiding and reselect the star.
Then resume guiding and note the magnitude of the DEC drift. If it is smaller then you have moved the knobs in the right direction, if not, do this again reversing the movement of the knobs. In this way you could then achieve the condition where the red DEC line is oscillating about the zero line. This would indicate near perfect polar alignment. However, as above, I like to introduce a small drift from the zero line so that when
guiding, PHD DEC guiding does normally not have to cross the backlash zone.
Having done, go into Brain and set the DEC guiding to auto and then retrain PHD for both the RA and DEC directions. I usually set the steps so that there is about 10 or so training steps in each RA direction. After this is done commence guiding and you should now find that you may guide normally in both RA and DEC.

BUT, if you do the above and you still find that the red DEC line is continuously drifting above the zero line this could indicated that your
guiding PC is not communicating with your mount in DEC. How do you check this? You can go into the Shoestring site at the following url
http://www.store.shoestringastronomy.com/downloads.htm
and download the software utility GPINT Check or GPUSB Check whichever suits your PC/mount interface hardware. Run this small utility and it will present you with a screen showing RA and DEC direction buttons. These may be selected with your mouse. Select the appropriate connection protocol from the top left hand list (same as you use for PHD). Set up your mount etc at any time (ie daytime and no need to mount scopes ) and select as normal and go to a guide star and the mount head will move to its position and then hit enter to confirm the completion of guide star position. Then on your Synscan paddle select Utility Function and Show Position. Hit enter in this location to show the actual coordinates of RA and DEC.You should see the DEC steady and the RA moving slowly as the mount tracks the "star". Select the utility RA and DEC movement squares on your PC screen with your mouse. If you hit DEC up and then DOWN you should see the DEC coordinates of your mount move up and down. Similarly RA + will move the RA coordinate change faster and RA minus will show the opposite change in RA direction. If these functions work it shows that your PC is communicating properly with your mount.

Long winded Dan but see how the above goes and let me know.

Cheers Peter
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  #53  
Old 04-11-2011, 01:06 PM
swannies1983 (Dan)
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Peter,

Thanks for the information. I should have updated my post because I feel like an idiot. When guiding, I have been looking at the dx/dy graph when I should be looking at the RA/DEC graph I can see my RA guiding is quite good for my image scale.

I went through a PhD polar alignment process last night but the wind got the better of me.

So, that issue is out of the way. The next is trying to sort out DEC guiding. As you do, I also try to have a little drift in one direction so that I don't have to deal with backlash. My problem is that despite good calibration, I get large jumps in DEC when guiding in DEC, sometimes moving 1-3 pixels. Again, I'm only guiding in N or S so I could understand the large jumps if guiding was set to AUTO.

From what I have learnt, improper balance, binding, stiction are all factors that can contribute to these wild oscillations. I have recently tuned up DEC and it appears to move freely, no binding, not stiff, very little backlash. It's much better than it was before. I balance eyepiece heavy. I have also tried calibrating at one guide rate and then just before I start guiding, I drop the guide rate to it's minimum (0.2x). Nothing seems to prevent the large oscillations when a pulse is sent to DEC. The only option is to get fairly accurate polar alignment so that very little work needs to be done in the DEC direction.
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  #54  
Old 05-11-2011, 10:52 AM
pjphilli (Peter)
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Hi Dan

When you have polar aligned your DEC to give a slight drift you may find that your guiding will be better. Personally, I do not pay much attention to balance in DEC but try to get the RA balance reasonable. A couple of points:

I notice that you have an EQ6 mount which can take a good load but apparently you have an 8 in dob mounted on it plus other accessories?
I have found that the manufacturer's guide to mount loading is always a bit optimistic. I have a EQ5 mount which when fully loaded did not guide so well. When I reduced the loading to about 2/3 of the manufacturer's max loading I found that guiding went much better. So check your loading.
I also find that when guiding even a slight puff of wind will cause my guiding to go off a few pixels but when the wind drops it quickly goes back to normal (using 1 second guiding). In this case a few pixels diversion in RA or DEC is not uncommon. Keeping in mind that if this does not happen very often during say a 4 minute image then the stars are only put off for a very short proportion of this imaging time and I usually cannot detect any problem in the image display. If wind gusts occur too frequently I usually give up guiding for the night.
It is hard to reach perfection in this imaging and guiding business so don't
be too concerned if your guiding is pushed off a few pixels occasionally.
Don't worry - be happy!
Cheers Peter
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  #55  
Old 05-11-2011, 11:14 AM
swannies1983 (Dan)
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Yeah I have an 8" on there. That and an old 60mm refractor as a guidescope and a canon 400D. Total payload weight is around 13-14kg. That should be OK given the MAX rating is 25kg? Guiding in RA appears to be fine. I just have to sort out the large jumps in DEC when a pulse is given.

True about the wind. I went out the other night and the wind started to pick up and was averaging about 15km/hr, gusting up to about 25km/hr. This was a complete waste of time. Of course last night was completely calm but we had some high cloud. It was gone by about 11pm but I couldn't be bothered setting up.

Also recently got myself a light pollution filter (thanks Tandum). I also sorted out how to use the filter with my set up (see http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...94&postcount=9). Of course the moon doesn't want to play nice and the weather looks terrible anyway.
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  #56  
Old 06-11-2011, 10:58 AM
pjphilli (Peter)
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HI Dan
Yes your mount weight should not cause any problem. You will find that your light pollution filter will require about double the exposure times but I live in a very light polluted area and on balance I find I come out in front with use of a light pollution filter. I use the bright Moon period to do any tests and object scoping to be ready for the dark Moon.
Cheers Peter
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