Are you in an astronomy club ?

[RAJAH235]

Originally Posted by Jen

I wish we had one here
I want to get one started im gonna call it S.H.A.G. Swan Hill Astronomy Group

Any ideas on how to get started

Jen...
As no-one has mentioned it yet, please don't forget the
Public Liability Insurance aspect.
You'll need to have "The Club", covered....JIC.
(AFAIK, no claim has ever been made by/against an Astronomy club/society.)
All astronomy clubs/societies are covered by an Australia wide policy for any
authorised event.

From memory...We, W.A.A.C.ers, use the brokers, Webster-Hyde Heath in South Aus.
Not sure if all clubs/societies are through them though.

I'm sure that others will have more info on the subject.
As an example of premium/s...
Before the Aussie wide cover, most clubs were paying over $1,100 per.
Now it's capped to a more reasonable sum. (bit involved to explain here.)
We pay ~$110 per year for our 30 odd members.

HTH.

Regs, L..

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by RAJAH235

Jen...
As no-one has mentioned it yet, please don't forget the
Public Liability Insurance aspect.
You'll need to have "The Club", covered....JIC.
(AFAIK, no claim has ever been made by/against an Astronomy club/society.)
All astronomy clubs/societies are covered by an Australia wide policy for any
authorised event.

From memory...We, W.A.A.C.ers, use the brokers, Webster-Hyde Heath in South Aus.
Not sure if all clubs/societies are through them though.

I'm sure that others will have more info on the subject.
As an example of premium/s...
Before the Aussie wide cover, most clubs were paying over $1,100 per.
Now it's capped to a more reasonable sum. (bit involved to explain here.)
We pay ~$110 per year for our 30 odd members.

HTH.

Regs, L..

That's probably why it pays to become affiliated with a tech college , you are then covered by their insurance.

If meeting at people's homes , the house insurance covers people getting injured on your property. What's the worse thing that can happen ?.... most sitting and talking.

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

KEEP IT INCLUSIVE and AVOID FORMATION OF AN ELITE.

Over the many years, my experience is that every club I've been involved with (30+) this is exactly what doesn't happens.

Perceived power, influence and money are always the catalyst. Such sub-groups then cement their position either by 'superior' knowledge and putting in place the means of reinforcing their influence.

What you say is absolutely true, but it is a little naive to happen naturally. as I've stated previously, prevention of elitism has to be put in black ink and not on the hope it won't happen. Human nature will kick you in the butt every time.

As a broader comment; Why does happen everytime, that when you mention the word clique out comes the 'warm and fuzzies' and then trying to justify their little group of people? I.e. We're not like this or that.

Are those who do this. Are they more susceptible to being part of the clique, of which they might be accused?

(Wish I took up sociology!)

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by Ric

I've just joined the ASNSW, I've always been impressed with what I have seen and read about them.

Good luck to you!!

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Enchilada

Good luck to you!!

Thanks mate. One of the best society in NSW.

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by ngcles

At Sutherland, we have generally had a culture of the committee and the executive being turned over pretty regularly. I have been on the committee and have been its President for two years (1998-2000). I stood down because I firmly believe in that culture that it should be rotated regularly.

Actually, this is the first good sign of a healthy society. In one or two societies, which I shall not name, Committee members might exist for eight to ten years on average. Yet when this is pointed out to them, they closed ranks, and started to form a dynasty. The more power or the more finances available to control, the more ruthless the executive becomes. You know this is happening in how the membership communicates with the executive or the executive/clique. In my view, the cause is because the executive is organised and the rest of the membership is fragmented. This wedge, is what the executive to maintain their control - forming the "us" and "them" attitude. After a while, the executive then gripes about the lack of support from the members, while the members feel on on lookers instead of participants.

Perhaps all this is acceptable and the way it is, but everyone in every one within group should change the whole paradigm. The key is not make the executive more fluid and this involves participation. Sitting on the fence as a member and expecting everything to be handed to you is actually just as bad as not participating at all. In the end, it means you will only get what you deserve.

Have the gumption (and discard the temerity) and destroy the clique formations at every possibility. This is the only way all members will get a level playing field.

Note: As for being a 'member' of one society - I didn't know that (my apologies on the assumption.) They, of which you are a member, have always been friendly to me for more years than I care to imagine! Good stuff!

[stephenb (Stephen)]

I used to be in the ASV. I received a lot of help in my younger years, but these days I cannot justify the membership price. When I get off my backside, perhaps SVAA in March.

The "politics" mentioned is in every club, no matter which hobby. You should see what it's like in model railways clubs Les has explained the "politics" aspect perfectly.

My advice for anyone thinking of forming a group or club? Keep to an informal group and meet amongst yourselves. No presidents, no treasurers, no bank accounts, no model association rules, no AGM's, no auditing the books at the end of the financial year. Do not try to create a formal incorporated club unless you are really, really ready for it.

If you all get along, then each person throws in $5 every time you meet (or $1 or $2, whatever) for refreshments, consumerables, end-of-year bbq or whatever. I do this with five others in my area in another hobby, where we used to be a part of an incorporated club, but we all left because we wanted to spend the club nights enjoying the hobby, not having meetings. Now we meet at someone's home every fortnight and enjoy the hobby.

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by multiweb

Thanks mate. One of the best society in NSW.

As one of its past Presidents and as a member since 1979, it probably is.

From your seemingly long experience with it, perhaps you know better?

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Enchilada

As one of its past Presidents and as a member since 1979, it probably is.

From your seemingly long experience with it, perhaps you know better?

I've been there only two years so I haven't had the privilege of experiencing your presidency but I'll take your word for it. Having said that they're the most helpful and talented bunch of people and they helped me a great deal in every aspect of the hobby.

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by glenluceskies

My advice for anyone thinking of forming a group or club? Keep to an informal group and meet amongst yourselves. No presidents, no treasurers, no bank accounts, no model association rules, no AGM's, no auditing the books at the end of the financial year.

If you all get along, then each person throws in $5 every time you meet (or $1 or $2, whatever) for refreshments, consumerables, end-of-year bbq or whatever, and do not try to create a formal incorporated club unless you are really, really ready for it.

You may be right. However, the problems with forming a group is public liability and the need for insurance.

Legally, the difficulties in forming groups is to basically protect its members from being sued. To do this, you need to be incorporated, by a government authority. This requires registration and a legal constitution. In turn, it allows you to hold money in an account, which required books and financial statements.

If you do as you suggest, you need to be auspiced by a group that does have public liability insurance to meet together at some 'meeting', and also that any finances the group possesses are held by the auspice body.

Not doing this finds the danger is an accident happening and one person suing the members for damages, in which each individual is liable. You might have good intentions, but a $2 million dollar debt to a couple of people tends to ruin one's life.

Years ago, doing such things was fine. Not anymore. I, personal, would not be involved in such a ad-hoc group.

Best idea is to probably to stick to blog sites like this one...

[stephenb (Stephen)]

Originally Posted by Enchilada

You may be right. However, the problems with forming a group is public liability and the need for insurance.

Legally, the difficulties in forming groups is to basically protect its members from being sued. To do this, you need to be incorporated, by a government authority. This requires registration and a legal constitution. In turn, it allows you to hold money in an account, which required books and financial statements.

If you do as you suggest, you need to be auspiced by a group that does have public liability insurance to meet together at some 'meeting', and also that any finances the group possesses are held by the auspice body.

No doing this finds the danger is an accident happening and one suing the members for damages, in which each individual is liable. You might have good intentions, but a $2 million dollar debt to a couple of people tends to ruin one's life.

Years ago, doing such things was fine. Not anymore. I, personal, would not be involved in such a ad-hoc group.

Best, probably to stick to blog sites like this one...

I understand what you are saying about the public liabiliy etc. but I am simply saying... invite people to your place and enjoy the hobby.

I wouldn't (and don't) take out public liability insurance if I'm going to have a Christmas BBQ in my backyard with friends and family. If you fall over at my place.. too bad so sad, you should have looked where you are walking. That's all I'm am saying. I am not talking about public events, or anything involving the public. Just a group of like-minded people catching up at someone's house for a few hours and sharing the hobby.

If I want to drive to the bush and meet up with a few astro friends, at the end of a dirt road, I don't need public liability insurance for that.

People can have just as much fun in small personal, informal groups without all the crap. You don't need public liability insurance to meet at someone's house.

Originally Posted by Enchilada

Years ago, doing such things was fine. Not anymore. I, personal, would not be involved in such a ad-hoc group.

Best, probably to stick to blog sites like this one...

I have been doing this with many hobbies for some years. It is not an outdated concept, you know. People can interact without forming official clubs. I don't consider ourselves "members" just locals getting together for a drink , a chat, and exchanging ideas within the hobby.

Remind me not to invite you to my place. If you stub your toe, you'd probably sue me.

Perhaps a topic for another thread.

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by glenluceskies

I have been doing this with many hobbies for some years. It is not an outdated concept, you know. People can interact without forming official clubs. I don't consider ourselves "members" just locals getting together for a drink , a chat, and exchanging ideas within the hobby.

Remind me not to invite you to my place. If you stub your toe, you'd probably sue me.

Two points.

Yes, you can interact with people without forming official clubs. However, my response was in light of you saying "My advice for anyone thinking of forming a group or club?" I'd assumed you were NOT talking not about a "group of friends" but of slightly more "official" engagements. The transition between the two hazy definitions is the problem. The problem you have is being exposed to people you don't know is the real issue with needing insurance.

As for the "outdated concept", I think you misunderstand me. I'm referring to is slightly more formal regular meetings of members in public places. I.e. If you have a get together on a local council premises, where you would be asked about PL insurance before using one of there venues, halls, etc. (In this case, the Council itself is protecting themselves from the possibility of being sued.) Thirty or forty years ago doing things like this was not a problem, sadly these days it is!

Secondly I don't believe in litigation on a matter of principle, and feel a bit hurt by the suggestion that I would not like to talk to someone who is equally passionate about their interest. You would always be welcome at my house, especially with a telescope and some interesting astronomical conversation. Hell. I'd even give you a biscuit with tea or coffee!!! I do that with others at least once a week or so now!

[Zaps]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Club politics was also a turn off

Ain't that the truth.

[Wavytone]

Anyone else here had their application for membership of a society declined ?

I have, for a start.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Wavytone

Anyone else here had their application for membership of a society declined ?

I have, for a start.

No .... not wanted to join one for a great many years.

Did they say why they'd declined you a membership ? that's very odd.

I however come across into a bunch of guys who had a few telescopes set up on the grass near the Pilot Station at Newcastle recently , and other than my old friend George Levanis who was there , I took the time to park and wonder over and say gday to and to have a bit of a chat with (had been several years since I'd seen him), the other guys came across very frosty , wouldn't even engage in any interaction at all (with me) , so I just left them to it.

For an outreach session , they were not very outreaching .

Nor did they hang around very long , I drove back past the area about an hour later when it was actually night and they were gone. But I'll concede the lighting in the area they had set up in very bad for stargazing , and they may have packed in because of the lighting.

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by erick

Snake Valley Astronomical Association.

How often do you attend meetings ? Meetings? We don't have them

Perhaps I should qualify by saying that the club executive manage everything just fine without asking me - probably just as well. So club meetings aren't currently required.

[star1961 (Lisa)]

i am a member of ASSA in adelaide. their monthly bulletin is really good and i used to love doing the crosswords but haven't seen one of those for a while. i haven't been to any meetings. they're too hard to get to. every time i plan on going to the observatory nights the weather is really bad and it's too far to drive in bad weather.
i've spent quite a bit of time at the university planetarium with some interesting speakers and professional lecturers.
i dont think i'll keep up my membership it's pretty expensive at $55 per year.

[AdrianF (Adrian)]

No not a member of any club. Sent emails to 1 of the clubs in SE QLD and didnt get a reply so I assumed I wasnt needed/wanted so didnt try again.

Adrian

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

Originally Posted by AdrianF

No not a member of any club. Sent emails to 1 of the clubs in SE QLD and didnt get a reply so I assumed I wasnt needed/wanted so didnt try again.

Adrian

Adrian, try again. I refuse to believe that any of the SE Queensland clubs maliciously failed to answer - they all could not be more welcoming.

Email has become far from reliable now with spam filters doing their worst. Maybe they didn't get yours, maybe you didn't get theirs.

If it was the AAQ, you can PM me with details and I will investigate.

[seanliddelow (Sean)]

Originally Posted by AstroJunk

Adrian, try again. I refuse to believe that any of the SE Queensland clubs maliciously failed to answer - they all could not be more welcoming.

Email has become far from reliable now with spam filters doing their worst. Maybe they didn't get yours, maybe you didn't get theirs.

If it was the AAQ, you can PM me with details and I will investigate.

I had problems joining my groups email lists because all the emails i got from them had been put in spam filters, i fixed the problem howeve.