Boat Refugees

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

I suggest that people check out Tom Stoddart's photography...harrowing to say the least.

http://www.tomstoddart.com/iwitness.html

what have these poor people done to deserve this?

Dave

Harrowing - absolutely.
The world it would seem is totally Dave
Doug

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by renormalised

This fractious thread needs some comedy here...

I'm pretty certain that most of the immigrants coming here (by any means) would have an aversion to "Zena"

People who are rednecks need medical attention for the rash around their necks

Seriously, though, I look at it this way. If we don't want refugees to be coming here then we should take measures to nip the problems that cause people to flee their home countries, in the bud. This "hands off" approach of the U.N. is a cop out. These people have the same rights and privileges as we do, as fellow humans. They also have the same responsibilities too. Quite frankly, if a government is causing grievous problems in it's country (like in Zimbabwe at present), go in and remove them. Give the people a chance to then sort their problems out without being terrorised by their own people. Help them out. But don't patronise them.

We need to start acting like one world and not like a bunch of disparate nation states. Otherwise we're on the slippery slope to collapse, and the causes will come on so many levels, let alone political problems.

If the clouds every bugger off , there will be plenty of red necks in NSW and Queensland. .... I'll probably be one of them , now I know the yellowtail are about and I've heard a whisper that there are some jewfish on the bite in the Hunter River , the harbour and off the breakwalls.
Just got to tinker with my livebait pumps , a couple of them refused to blow bubbles this evening when I got them out of my fishing gear cabinet and tested them. They all worked fine when I tested them in August.

New Moon in about a week away .... gotta get my jewie gear in order .

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

This latest nightmare in the US looks like doing very little for Christian/Muslim relations either (and thus the perpetuation of the problems illuminated by Mike in this thread!).
If David Icke wasn't so 'out there' you'd think he was spot on with "Problem, Reaction, Solution"!!

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Easily covered by our silly smokers I'd imagine...a small price to pay

You leave my ciggy tax alone. I pay for everything else with that.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by dugnsuz

This latest nightmare in the US looks like doing very little for Christian/Muslim relations either (and thus the perpetuation of the problems illuminated by Mike in this thread!).
If David Icke wasn't so 'out there' you'd think he was spot on with "Problem, Reaction, Solution"!!

Heard about that this avo on the radio while I was doing my harbour foreshore drive / fishing reccy .... a major , a psychologist , and it just so happens an american of jordanian decent (and presumeably a muslim) , not that his ethnicity or religion has a lot to do with it .... though the story emphasised it none-the-less.

Home grown nutcases are more danger to the USA than any foreign based terror group , same here.

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Home grown nutcases are more danger to the USA than any foreign based terror group , same here.

Agreed Ian - looks like sanity has been put on the back burner again!
Maybe next year!?

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by dugnsuz

Agreed Ian - looks like sanity has been put on the back burner again!
Maybe next year!?

Take a look at any forum that permits political threads , I just just visited one at Zetaboards (has to do with startrek , I ditched it ages ago as I didn't like the racist and nasty people there or biased policies of the mods) .... I looked out curiousity to see what the usual resident rednecks and islamophobes (racists) are saying, and they are true to form , it's a terrorist act ..http://s2.zetaboards.com/SisterTrek/topic/5068268/1/... according to them .... so there you are.

If he was a christian , I bet they wouldn't be calling it a terrorist act.

how on earth is someone flipping out and going on a crazy shooting spree on a monster army base full of active serving soldiers (all of whom have easy access to military weapons) an act of terror ?

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

OK Mike,

What are we supposed to do?

Let these people risk their lives to come here? I am OK with that.

Let some criminal gang from Indonesia profit from risking someone elses life? I am not in that game.

Tell the starving in Ethiopia or Sudan that that some guy with $2000 dollars took his place in Australia, do you think they would think it is fair.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ this is what we facing for the government, we already have an under class in Australia. Adding more people to this is not doing anyone a favour.

I take it what you want is Mikes Ferry Service from Indonesia to Christmas island, what are you going to charge? What about those that dont make it as far as Indonesia?

I dont have any problem with immigration or refugees, some of my best friends fall into the both categories (wifes familiy included), but because I have a measured approach immigration, I am a redneck Aussie by your accounts.

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

OK Mike,

What are we supposed to do?

Let these people risk their lives to come here? I am OK with that.

Let some criminal gang from Indonesia profit from risking someone elses life? I am not in that game.

Tell the starving in Ethiopia or Sudan that that some guy with $2000 dollars took his place in Australia, do you think they would think it is fair.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ this is what we facing for the government, we already have an under class in Australia. Adding more people to this is not doing anyone a favour.

I take it what you want is Mikes Ferry Service from Indonesia to Christmas island, what are you going to charge? What about those that dont make it as far as Indonesia?

I dont have any problem with immigration or refugees, some of my best friends fall into the both categories (wifes familiy included), but because I have a measured approach immigration, I am a redneck Aussie by your accounts.

I certainly understand your approach Trevor but the reality is that people who are desparate will continue to atempt to get into a safe haven like Australia by whatever means they can. We have to be sensible about these refugees and make some effort to improve their life. When it all boils down the countries they come from have in a lot of cases been plundered by Western ecconomic companies who pass little if anything back to the country.

A little compassion is the least we can provide these people. We pay millions to keep rapists, child molestors and murderers very comfortably in jail but have to keep desparate, probably very decent people on a boat with threats of return to hell.

Easy for us to disregard the poor when we have so much.

[GrahamL]

I couldn't imagine loading my family into an old fishing boat , whos
"crew members " jobs become all to apparant when you hit the open sea, namely to hopefully scoop the water out the bottom quicker than it leaks in . The demonising of these desperate souls for being able to risk it all by paying a crook is as dissgusting as the political circus that once again has taken centre stage.The loss of life last week is the real tragedy , something that seemed to get lost in poll results , and the general media frenzy this issue is creating.


Maybe globally we could all have a good look at ourselves in that
the arms manufacturers of our enlightened nations often play a significant roll in creating this mess by arming both sides of the conflict, money which would be far better spent in the first place on the probable looming famine and associated disasters thats going to start desperate people fleeing to wherever they can .

[Kal (Andrew)]

Some of my friends that I work with at hp were refugees that came from Vietnam via boat - quite often with terrifying and dangerous journeys.

Since Australia signed and ratified both the 1951 Refugee Convention and the 1967 Protocol relating to the status of refugees, you would think that we would be more compassionate toward them by now?

[h0ughy (David)]

guys and gals,

please note this thread http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...88&postcount=1

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

I used to be a Rednecked Aussie, then I found suncreen, now I prefer the life without that horrible stinging sensation.

What I like about this discussion is that we can talk about it.

Was the Howard government right, is the Rudd government right, who knows?

I dont know whether I have the right answer, I dont think at the moment anyone here has the right answer. But discussing it without accusations can and will bring us closer to the right answer.

[kinetic (Steve)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

What I like about this discussion is that we can talk about it.

Was the Howard government right, is the Rudd government right, who knows?

I dont know whether I have the right answer, I dont think at the moment anyone here has the right answer. But discussing it without accusations can and will bring us closer to the right answer.

Amen brother!

[TrevorW]

So far on this site I haven't struck any I'd consider a weirdo.

We share a common interest that bonds us and this would IMO be lacking on other sites.

We are predominately law abiding, married, family people, who have worked considerable years to sustain our families and earned enough to enjoy our hobbies, few of us a wealthy to the extreme.

We also share a hobby that encourages us to explore, research and question and requires a modicom of intelligence something that again would not be common amongst those members of other threads.

I have found that topics can be discussed intellectually without resort to sarcasm, rudeness or outright hostility and when such hostiliy manifests itself, it is often moderated by other members, something which also IMO would be lacking elsewhere.

No I don't think personally I'd be interested in going to other sites to post a comment. I come here because there is some security in knowing that basically most of us do care.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Heard about that this avo on the radio while I was doing my harbour foreshore drive / fishing reccy .... a major , a psychologist , and it just so happens an american of jordanian decent (and presumeably a muslim) , not that his ethnicity or religion has a lot to do with it .... though the story emphasised it none-the-less.

Home grown nutcases are more danger to the USA than any foreign based terror group , same here.

Yes, that is the case. However, the Bush, and Howard and Blair governments have played on people's fear factors to allow them to remove rights (habeus corpus anyone), spy on their populace (at least 100,000 US citizens were illegaly spied on by the Bush jr government, why isn't he being impeached?), segragation of races from each other based on religious beliefs. It's a well known fact that Christian fundamentalists are slowly infiltrating the US government and forcing their own beliefs into the political structure.

We've got the current Pope (I won't say on here what I really think of him cos it'll get me into trouble) who is encouraging hate crimes against those of different religions.

All of it is because, as a species, we're seemingly intolerant of others with different beliefs systems. We're distrusting and hateful and spiteful. I'd rather personally accept the boat people to be honest - better for our culture. Why turn away these people on the premise that a few might be bad? Do we apply similar principles and say ban car driving because there's a few bad drivers? No. We let everyone drive, even those who shouldn't be and we punish them *when* they commit the crime. Why can't the same logic be applied to the boat people? Is it really that hard to accept them - they are our fellow humans!

Mike - thanks for keeping this thread open. Whilst people's feelings are hot on subjects like this, it's nice to be able to sometimes discuss these things as a social group.

Dave

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by dugnsuz

Harrowing - absolutely.
The world it would seem is totally f@#*ed Dave
Doug

It's not totally (!*&(!*, but it is heading this way. Humans need to take control of our destiny and start socially growing up. Now, before it is too late...

Dave

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

Uprooting your family, living in squalid refugee hovels for endless months or years. Then arriving in Australia, never mastering the lingo, always feeling yourself an outsider, living in a virtual slums, accepting a job well beneath your training and dignity. Constantly patronized by the locals, distrusted and vilified by the press, confused by the bureaucracy. Labelled an illegal, unlawful person. Then finding your own kids growing up alien to you, despising you because they're struggling between cultures and trying to escape yours, they just don't understand why you've done this to them. Watch them dropping out, falling into marginal groups prone to drugs and violence.

And this is the "good life" you've been running towards. What must it be like where you've come from?

[renormalised (Carl)]

We've got the current Pope...

Who was the head of a Vatican organisation called "The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith"...a.k.a The Inquisition. Yes, the Grand Inquisitor is now the Pope.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

yeah, but Carl, the real problem with the UN is the veto vote. As soon as one of the permanent council nations doesn't like something, they veto it. No matter what the democratic process voting resulted in. Let's consider Israel's illegal invasion and occupation of Palestinian territory for starters - the US has veto'd that so many times...image if the democratic process actually worked and the UN as a whole did things...it'd be very productive, and would do what the damn organisation was meant to do in the first place. The UN is nothing but a front for what the US government wants. Nothing more and nothing less.

Redistribution of wealth - I'm sorry, but I find it appalling that 99.999% of our global wealth is owned by 0.01% of the population. That's just really appalling. The poor countries end up being power bases for despots like Mugabe - and what did the rest of the world do (other than South Africa)? SFA. I bet if there was oil there...

What about the horrors of Somalia? Ethiopa? I suggest that people check out Tom Stoddart's photography...harrowing to say the least.

http://www.tomstoddart.com/iwitness.html

what have these poor people done to deserve this? Individuals, businesses and governments need to join together as one to stop these atrocities from happening.

Dave

The problem is not the veto vote....it's the whole U.N. in general. It's nothing but a gravy train for failed or retiring politicians, career bureaucrats and power despots. In short it's corrupt to the core and a joke. Along with its mates like the World Bank and other, more nefarious organisations, all it's interested in is keeping the status quo operating.