Crazy neighbour + AVO + do nothing cops

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by matt

Good luck getting or programs of that ilk involved or interested.

As a print/magazine/radio journo of many years I can tell you they're only interested in a story like this if there's more of an angle than just a neighbour or two being pissed off with another neighbour...as disruptive as that neighbour may be, and as much as it may have become a large part of your life.

You're much better off going down the path/s already suggested. If police, state MP and local council fail to come to your aid...then you've really got something of interest to Today/Tonight! They love to run stories pointing out the failure of cops and authorities to act in obvious cases where action is required.

First things first.

This is a different issue to a vendor stiffing an individual over a warranty issue. Not nearly so clear-cut or of broader benefit. That's not to say it wouldn't be a useful piece on how to deal with troublesome of potentially dangerous neighbours...

It's just that vendors letting down 'the little guy' and being taken to task has broader appeal as a tabloid piece than a nutbag making a lot of noise and generally being a pain.

Just my 2c worth...and offering the benefit of my professional experience. For every approach that's made to Today Tonight which they decide to take up...there's 99 they toss into their 'Ho Hum' file.

Feel free to make whatever approaches to whomever you see as worthwhile...but I'd go trough the usual channels first before taking a punt on the 'current affairs' shows.

All the best...and let us know how things pan out.

\\\


I wouldn't touch Today Tonight with a barge pole , or get involved with them.

Only after all other avenues have been exhausted , I don't think very much of their "style of journalism" and rarely watch them.

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

Also, you imply that this guy is on medication. At the risk of sounding like one of those bleeding hearts, I must say that, generally speaking, the medication often works pretty well nowadays, and when psychotic or schizophrenic patients are acting out it is usually because they are either non-compliant or are simply inadequately dosed, or perhaps on the wrong medication. (Sure, governments were happy to wash its hands of the cost and responsibility of inpatient psychiatric care, but one shouldn't lose sight of the fact that community based mental health care has been a tremendous success for a great many mentally ill people, and perhaps not all bad for society at large. Mind you, that's not to imply that your neighbour doesn't deserve to be shot, by the way.) Anyway, if possible, it would be worthwhile speaking directly to his GP or psychiatrist, who may be unaware that things aren't all rosy bliss outside the consulting room.
They ought to keep your name out of it, but make sure of this explicitly if you do talk to them. Or else give them a nom de guerre.

Failing that, maybe you could try to befriend the bugger. That'd confuse him.

[matt]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

\\\


I don't think very much of their "style of journalism" and rarely watch them.

Nor I...Ian

But as others have said...they do occasionally have their uses.

I'm not a fan...but each to their own.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Miaplacidus

Also, you imply that this guy is on medication. At the risk of sounding like one of those bleeding hearts, I must say that, generally speaking, the medication often works pretty well nowadays, and when psychotic or schizophrenic patients are acting out it is usually because they are either non-compliant or are simply inadequately dosed, or perhaps on the wrong medication. (Sure, governments were happy to wash its hands of the cost and responsibility of inpatient psychiatric care, but one shouldn't lose sight of the fact that community based mental health care has been a tremendous success for a great many mentally ill people, and perhaps not all bad for society at large. Mind you, that's not to imply that your neighbour doesn't deserve to be shot, by the way.) Anyway, if possible, it would be worthwhile speaking directly to his GP or psychiatrist, who may be unaware that things aren't all rosy bliss outside the consulting room.
They ought to keep your name out of it, but make sure of this explicitly if you do talk to them. Or else give them a nom de guerre.

Failing that, maybe you could try to befriend the bugger. That'd confuse him.

I am not a pharmacist or up very much on biochemistry (been over 20 years since I did my studied biochem as an elective), but if he is being treated for schitsophrenia and others with injections fortnightly and then goes home and uses pot , drinks nonstop , and uses other drugs (ice ? crack ? who cares) then at the very least these are counteracting what he is being medicated with , or the shrinks are incompetent and are treating wrongly.
While he remains a user , the meds are likely to never work effectively.

This seems very much to be the case based on what he is doing and how he is behaving.

Unfortunately we have no say on how he is medicated or treated and have no way of stopping him from using what ever drugs he happens to like using.

[I.C.D (Ian)]

Hey Robo,

I have work in the mining industry for the pass 25 years over those years I have seen some great get back ‘s from us old mining feds to the fitters and eleco.The best was one day old mate had a beef with a fitter the old mate put super glued into the fitter’s lock’s to his tool box at the end of his shift which made it unable for him to gain access to his tool locker next day which put him in the firing of his boss becaues he could not get into his tool box .
Ian wait till you see old mate and family going out and then super glue his locks to the front and back doors and any other doors they may use to enter then and sit back and watch and wait for the show to start, after braking the keys they will trying to gain access through a window and if you are watching them climbing through the window you should call the police and alter them that you may be witnessing a break and enter

Ian C

[Solanum]

Originally Posted by Miaplacidus

Also, you imply that this guy is on medication. At the risk of sounding like one of those bleeding hearts, I must say that, generally speaking, the medication often works pretty well nowadays, and when psychotic or schizophrenic patients are acting out it is usually because they are either non-compliant or are simply inadequately dosed, or perhaps on the wrong medication. (Sure, governments were happy to wash its hands of the cost and responsibility of inpatient psychiatric care, but one shouldn't lose sight of the fact that community based mental health care has been a tremendous success for a great many mentally ill people, and perhaps not all bad for society at large. Mind you, that's not to imply that your neighbour doesn't deserve to be shot, by the way.) Anyway, if possible, it would be worthwhile speaking directly to his GP or psychiatrist, who may be unaware that things aren't all rosy bliss outside the consulting room.
They ought to keep your name out of it, but make sure of this explicitly if you do talk to them. Or else give them a nom de guerre.

Failing that, maybe you could try to befriend the bugger. That'd confuse him.

Indeed, there is another side to this story, however one sided the situation is. I had a very good friend at university who became severely schizophrenic. The drugs barely allowed him to cope and he still suffered from auditory, visual and even tactile hallucinations. People in positions such as this often take illegal drugs because they help dull all of that (my friend did not however). Assuming this man is mentally ill as you imply I can assure you he is suffering more than you are. And much of the '
helpful' advice put forward will make things worse rather than better. By the way my friend is now dead, and his family are still affected by it. It wasn't suicide, but it was due to poor care by the authorities.

The bottom line is that the fault here is not so much your neighbours as the inadequate care he is being given. The 'community' care was set up more as a cost saving measure than an ideological shift in how care is provided.

All that said I have had good friends who were in exactly the same situation as you, they were lucky in that their neighbour was placed there by the council and eventually shifted (after a couple of years though).

My advice is you need to go through the authorities involved with his care if you want anything to happen.

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

Ian you a keen gardener, and I know you have a great spot to store a large amount of chook ****, fish meal and what not. if he is renting go see the agent when is he lease up? get everyone to chip in for a six month lease at a higher amount and get him kicked out. it doesn't help you but living in a small town this type of thing is sorted.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

I am not a pharmacist or up very much on biochemistry (been over 20 years since I did my studied biochem as an elective), but if he is being treated for schitsophrenia and others with injections fortnightly and then goes home and uses pot , drinks nonstop , and uses other drugs (ice ? crack ? who cares) then at the very least these are counteracting what he is being medicated with , or the shrinks are incompetent and are treating wrongly.
While he remains a user , the meds are likely to never work effectively.

This seems very much to be the case based on what he is doing and how he is behaving.

Unfortunately we have no say on how he is medicated or treated and have no way of stopping him from using what ever drugs he happens to like using.

Not the shrinks who are incompetent - it is the rubbish underfunded mental health system, and the BS use of mental health diagnoses by all and sundry to further gain for themselves....
Unless he is under a community treatment order, he is under no obligation to take any meds, and nobody can force him to - at the end of the day though, even if under a CTO - he can still basically do what he pleases!

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by I.C.D

Hey Robo,

I have work in the mining industry for the pass 25 years over those years I have seen some great get back ‘s from us old mining feds to the fitters and eleco.The best was one day old mate had a beef with a fitter the old mate put super glued into the fitter’s lock’s to his tool box at the end of his shift which made it unable for him to gain access to his tool locker next day which put him in the firing of his boss becaues he could not get into his tool box .
Ian wait till you see old mate and family going out and then super glue his locks to the front and back doors and any other doors they may use to enter then and sit back and watch and wait for the show to start, after braking the keys they will trying to gain access through a window and if you are watching them climbing through the window you should call the police and alter them that you may be witnessing a break and enter

Ian C

I like it .... have considered that a couple of times .... it was also a get back at the BHP Steelworks.,[

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Solanum

Indeed, there is another side to this story, however one sided the situation is. I had a very good friend at university who became severely schizophrenic. The drugs barely allowed him to cope and he still suffered from auditory, visual and even tactile hallucinations. People in positions such as this often take illegal drugs because they help dull all of that (my friend did not however). Assuming this man is mentally ill as you imply I can assure you he is suffering more than you are. And much of the '
helpful' advice put forward will make things worse rather than better. By the way my friend is now dead, and his family are still affected by it. It wasn't suicide, but it was due to poor care by the authorities.

The bottom line is that the fault here is not so much your neighbours as the inadequate care he is being given. The 'community' care was set up more as a cost saving measure than an ideological shift in how care is provided.

All that said I have had good friends who were in exactly the same situation as you, they were lucky in that their neighbour was placed there by the council and eventually shifted (after a couple of years though).

My advice is you need to go through the authorities involved with his care if you want anything to happen.

I used to be sympathetic , but that hradually become less and less with each bad incident and incident of abuse by him against us and other neighbours, I stopped being sympathetic completely when he physically threatened my wife and my self's lifes one morning in one of his rages .... I now have zero sympathy or tolerance for him and his behaviour and don't give a toss for how he is suffering , in fact I get the impression he likes the way he is and he doesn't care what effect he has on his neighbours or the community.

He has also become considerably more violent and his flip out pretty constant since he came into money from his mum's estate (and can afford his preferred poisons when ever he want them now rather than only on pension day).



I how take a very hard line since the AVO was granted , I don't need his crap and refuse to tolerate it.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Lee

Not the shrinks who are incompetent - it is the rubbish underfunded mental health system, and the BS use of mental health diagnoses by all and sundry to further gain for themselves....
Unless he is under a community treatment order, he is under no obligation to take any meds, and nobody can force him to - at the end of the day though, even if under a CTO - he can still basically do what he pleases!

Never heard of a CTO .... how does one get put on one ? Is it ordered by the magistrate after consultation with a shrink ? if they breach it what happens ?

[Alchemy (Clive)]

lots of suggestions there, you will have to do something that will ultimately result in his removal. given your dislike of using physical force (not something anyone wants to do unless absolutely necesary) and the glue in the locks idea is tempting ... but if found out you have shot yourself by provoking him.

whatever you do has to be legal , self defense is ok, but if you want to win it has to be within the confines of the law.

then you just have to accumulate enough evidence until the legal system intervenes, i still think the camera is the way to go. if he flips out once a week it will only take a couple of months before you have quite a bit of footage. this unpleasant situation has been going on for some considerable time, so you have to do something different to whats already occurred..... good luck.

[Solanum]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

I used to be sympathetic , but that hradually become less and less with each bad incident and incident of abuse by him against us and other neighbours, I stopped being sympathetic completely when he physically threatened my wife and my self's lifes one morning in one of his rages .... I now have zero sympathy or tolerance for him and his behaviour and don't give a toss for how he is suffering , in fact I get the impression he likes the way he is and he doesn't care what effect he has on his neighbours or the community.

He has also become considerably more violent and his flip out pretty constant since he came into money from his mum's estate (and can afford his preferred poisons when ever he want them now rather than only on pension day).

I how take a very hard line since the AVO was granted , I don't need his crap and refuse to tolerate it.

Entirely understandable, nothing is more important than the safety of ones family. My comments were perhaps aimed more at some other respondents on the thread than yourself.

The bottom line though, is still that he is getting inadequate care, particularly if he is truly is capable of violence. I'm originally from the UK, and there the compulsory treatment of someone in an institution is called 'sectioning' after the section of the law that sanctions it, and the police are able to have someone assessed (not by themselves obviously) for this. I'm not sure what the equivalent is over here (luckily I haven't had to find out!), but I think it is this sort of avenue that you should explore and whether the police can actually have a role. Maybe find out if the local council have the power to be involved?

As I'm sure you realise, doing anything like gluing their locks is only more likely to make them violent, likely to reduce the sympathy of the police for you and likely to reduce any legal arguements you have.

My friends that were in the same situation as you also had an AVO (in fact the entire street had an AVO against her), but it is a purely legal matter and the person involved is probably incapable of obeying it so I don't think it is ever going to have the effect that one would hope. In the end the council shifted the person harrassing my friends (but the council had placed them there so were able to).

[xelasnave]

I have not been in the legal game for a while but I do recall that an assualt is the act of threatning violence..the violence is "the battery".

So if you feel threated this may constitue an assualt and entitle you to comence a civil action..there are other lawyers here who may recall the "test" case but the fact were loosely...a person at a table at a meeting moved toward the chairman in a threatning manner..there were no blows but it was held that blows were npot necessary for an assualt.

Anyways the realities of taking the law into your own hands..via a civil action means that your opponent is presented with the prospect of high leagal fees (as indeed is the person starting the action) Dont be fooled that you get costs in the event of a sucess as those costs are "party party" costs and may almost certainly be well below the fees your lawyer will charge.

I mention this because of a matter referred to me where the amount in contention was $30,000 but the clients legal costs were some $500,000..unbelieveable that this difference was not pointed out to the parties as the party party cost would not have equalled the amount in contention.

However I say folk like this make enemies all over and their stupidity seems to catch up with them.
Certainly do not comtemplate reprisals...
alex

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Solanum

Entirely understandable, nothing is more important than the safety of ones family. My comments were perhaps aimed more at some other respondents on the thread than yourself.

The bottom line though, is still that he is getting inadequate care, particularly if he is truly is capable of violence. I'm originally from the UK, and there the compulsory treatment of someone in an institution is called 'sectioning' after the section of the law that sanctions it, and the police are able to have someone assessed (not by themselves obviously) for this. I'm not sure what the equivalent is over here (luckily I haven't had to find out!), but I think it is this sort of avenue that you should explore and whether the police can actually have a role. Maybe find out if the local council have the power to be involved?

As I'm sure you realise, doing anything like gluing their locks is only more likely to make them violent, likely to reduce the sympathy of the police for you and likely to reduce any legal arguements you have.

My friends that were in the same situation as you also had an AVO (in fact the entire street had an AVO against her), but it is a purely legal matter and the person involved is probably incapable of obeying it so I don't think it is ever going to have the effect that one would hope. In the end the council shifted the person harrassing my friends (but the council had placed them there so were able to).

From my reading of what can be done - "sectioning" doesn't seem an option, I have suggested it to the poilice (they can't or aren't prepared to), I mentioned it to the case worker shrink (?) and clearly told her that he is dangerous and unpredictable (and got a blank look from her and no response) .
I'll mention it to the MP when I meet with her (will need to make an appointment and will talk with the other neighbour beforehand - perhaps we can see her together - two immediate neighbours complaigning have got to have more weight than one. Maybe the MP can get things rolling on getting him permanently "sectioned" or pushing cops to charge and prosecute him. or both (my preferred option .... yes .... I want his blood (so to speak)) and him to get more than just a slap on the wrist - I'm sure I made death threats and harassed and stalked my neighbours - I'd find my self hauled up in front of the court so quick my head would spin and I'd land in prison for it and rightly so.)

Gluing locks .... I agree .... tempting but not a constructive thing to do and likely to loose any police support we have. This is why I haven't done it when I thought of it before it was mentioned here.

I'll stick for now with using the system and staying inside the law. If that eventually fails then I'll take my gloves off , declare war , and he had better watch out.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I have not been in the legal game for a while but I do recall that an assualt is the act of threatning violence..the violence is "the battery".

So if you feel threated this may constitue an assualt and entitle you to comence a civil action..there are other lawyers here who may recall the "test" case but the fact were loosely...a person at a table at a meeting moved toward the chairman in a threatning manner..there were no blows but it was held that blows were npot necessary for an assualt.

Anyways the realities of taking the law into your own hands..via a civil action means that your opponent is presented with the prospect of high leagal fees (as indeed is the person starting the action) Dont be fooled that you get costs in the event of a sucess as those costs are "party party" costs and may almost certainly be well below the fees your lawyer will charge.

I mention this because of a matter referred to me where the amount in contention was $30,000 but the clients legal costs were some $500,000..unbelieveable that this difference was not pointed out to the parties as the party party cost would not have equalled the amount in contention.

However I say folk like this make enemies all over and their stupidity seems to catch up with them.
Certainly do not comtemplate reprisals...
alex

Food for thought .... civil action .... I'm surprised the cops didn't charge him with assault when I called them the morning he made death threats (the whole neighbourhood heard him (at about 5am woke everyone up with is screaming and ranting and banging on my door and windows).

That was just over two years ago .... if I had known that was assault (and the cops didn't tell me it was) I would have demanded they press charges and took no excused for not doing so. Is it too late now ?

I'd be looking at bankrupting him (if he's inherited a couple hundred k , and his home is worth 300k say , then I'd be looking at at least that amount.

Something to thnk about - the fee's thing is a huge deterrent to me for the civil thing so I am not likely to be able to use that avenue.

[xelasnave]

His actions sound like he is a free baser (smoking refined coke) or a speed freak ... if so the cops will get him one would think.

Anyways Ian I really feel for you and wish there was something I could do to make it all right for you.
alex

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

lots of suggestions there, you will have to do something that will ultimately result in his removal. given your dislike of using physical force (not something anyone wants to do unless absolutely necesary) and the glue in the locks idea is tempting ... but if found out you have shot yourself by provoking him.

whatever you do has to be legal , self defense is ok, but if you want to win it has to be within the confines of the law.

then you just have to accumulate enough evidence until the legal system intervenes, i still think the camera is the way to go. if he flips out once a week it will only take a couple of months before you have quite a bit of footage. this unpleasant situation has been going on for some considerable time, so you have to do something different to whats already occurred..... good luck.

He's pretty much continuously flipping out (every day that he is home).

[xelasnave]

It will be difficult but you must not let him get to you... he has problems no doubt.. I found the chap I had to deal with in Sydney lashed out because he was angry with his own inabilities to manage life...
I would talk to a lawyer on the basis that the first conference is free..not unusual for firms to do this...cover the prospect of what actions you may bring and make sure they cover the cost situation... if they lose no fees..if they win no fees...
If you burn sulpher and zinc dust the residue gives off rotten egg gas as the water vapour in the air reacts with it... A paper bag full of it and tossed under a house has plumbers being called to dig up the fawlty sewer pipes...or so I believe.

alex

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

His actions sound like he is a free baser (smoking refined coke) or a speed freak ... if so the cops will get him one would think.

Your neighbor, with an opportunistic lawyer or advocacy group could have a field day with all the public and unsubstantiated hearsay and slander I've seen spouted in this thread even at a quick glance. This is not what public forums should be used for.

I personally sympathise with the situation, but this thread is just asking for trouble and some of the content is clearly breaking all the rules: it should have been locked and deleted by the moderators long ago.