“The Great Global Warming Swindle” is itself a Fraud and a Swindle

[KG8]

I think nuclear for SE qld is the go for sure! We can put the generators over the Mc Pherson range in northern NSW and ship the spent fuel rods off to the SW corner of Tassie

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by joe_smith

I agree most of the greens are pot smoking tree huggers and live in there own fantasyland. I am a bit green myself (not in a pot smoking tree hugging way) but I care about my environment around me, and nuclear power seems like a good choice with the technology we have now. So in 100 years time we will have much better air then another 100 years more of coal power

I have my own fantasy land and plenty of trees to hug .my own carbon credit system and fresh air supply... one worries about the world but you can only control a little part of it... I look after my bit of the planet you can still have things without going to the stone ages.. humans will come thru

I have views for and against N power but it wont last for long either.

The day will come where we have to face the fact we are going to have to get power direct from the Sun..because everything will be used up..no oil no coal no yellow cake... so in the end man will have to do what all animals have to do who hang around for a while..harvest the Sun.

I used to get fired up about this because of the vested interests twisting things on both sides but the wonderful thing is at least the problem is being addressed...

I liked Al Gore today..and I have given him some stick in the past.. jeeze you cant blame him for having a go ..and doing some folk some good...but he is getting something moving.

I dont know how the problem of China and India can be addressed ..their coal burning activity effectively means all we do counts for zip... no alternate power choice by us will change that... thats the futility in my view.

But its seems that China will have lots of solar power if any one follows the rising career of a Chinese Aussie.
He plans to sell power from panels and rival oil companies as an energy supplier..will he can he...
This sort of thing will happen and maybe we can stop all human causes..

But it will still get hotter seems to be the expert view as well... heard some scientists share that view on the radio so it must be true... they saw a need for doing everything possible even if futile...and they effectively said its a case of how we can slow it so we can prepare for the worst...

I have to say I sortta agree..even though that sounds like an about face.. but my reaction to special interests has hidden my real view I guess. Still how can we stop it even slow it..

Any ideas folks

alex

[KG8]

I doubt "WE" can do anything now. Perhaps in the future, if social change occurs. At the moment though corporations run the planet, and people silently consume because they believe that the 2 party political structure gives them a choice in the running of the show. Deep inside most people is the feeling that government is corrupt but they believe strongly in the system. While they still believe, that is to say, while the system still gives them a decent standard of living, they will continue to vote and not act.

[Karls48 (Karl)]

Without wanting to offend anyone I ‘m sorry to say that most of you gentlemen do not have clue about realities of life when going gets tough. Australia had it good for at least last 100 years and the population has been to the large extent isolated from man made disasters that affected rest of the word. Australia is indeed “lucky country” and I very much hope it will stay this way. However if all the people of Australia start pushing in different directions it will eventually be end of “lucky country”. Most of great civilizations ended this way. I’m sixty years old and been living in three different countries. I base my views on life experience not on how it should be, based on moral, environmental, religious or whatever view. And I s@!t on visionaries as Che Guevara, Lenin, Hitler, Marx to name few from recent history as their social experiment caused deaths of millions and life long suffering of tenths millions people. Starry-eyed journalists fresh from university don’t cut ice with me, they may have great ideas but they don’t know what they talking about. If you are really honest about this global warming debate as yourself following questions. Because if you are going to radically change economy and political system of your country those are situations that you may find yourself in. How many of you have been shoot on by the foreign forces invading your country? How many of you did have to bow and appear to accept ideology that is contrary to your believes? How many of you have ever been hungry? I don’t mean being stuck in traffic jam for couple of hours with no KFC or Mac Donald’s in sight. I mean really hungry when you eat very little for weeks and then nothing for two or three days. When the piece of months old rock hard bread covered in green mould tastes really good. In that situation if you come across last koala in whole word and if you and your family is starving, you are going to kill it and eat it regardless how “green” you are.
Nuclear power will become more and more spread, regardless if people like it or not. The fear of nuclear weapons being developed by the countries with nuclear power is baseless as to day any industrial country can develop nuclear weapon in few years
Alex got probably best advice that come from this debate. Global warming – if its coming for what ever reason - adapt to it and make money from it. This ability to adapt and to take advantage of any situation is what makes us dominant species on this planet. Did our the evolution come to the end.?

[joe_smith]

I think its more big business that run the world, the government are under pressure from them to do things to keep the economy going. The problem is we ARE to much dependent on fossil fuels. the whole world is based on it, the middle east solely relies on it for there economy also its worth billions of $$$ and where the big bucks are so is the greed and corruption. Its a dangerous predicament to be in we are damed if we do and even more damed if we don't do anything.

alex, I think when we start to run out of fossil fuels is when ww3 will start. By the time we use up all of earths resources I think the earth will be a bad place to live anyway thats if we can survive that long. I would like to see how the world will be in 500 years time from know

I doubt "WE" can do anything now. Perhaps in the future, if social change occurs. At the moment though corporations run the planet, and people silently consume because they believe that the 2 party political structure gives them a choice in the running of the show. Deep inside most people is the feeling that government is corrupt but they believe strongly in the system. While they still believe, that is to say, while the system still gives them a decent standard of living, they will continue to vote and not act.

I agree, the way the planet is divided things will never change for us to move to the next level. The people of Earth will have to be as one, living by the same rules and conditions and reaching for the same goals and I for one cannot see this ever happing. If we are a experiment or a life like game of life by some great alien force, then I think that experiment/game has failed big time

He plans to sell power from panels and rival oil companies as an energy supplier

"rival oil companies as an energy supplier" I doubt that will ever happen The USA invaded Iraq for there stake in middle east oil supply. Fossil Fuel company's don't like competition thats why theres no alternate Power in general use around the world.

[xelasnave]

Well on the bright side and I am not suggesting this will solve the problem but its a ray of hope for the carbon part of things...as I understand it a plant only gathers its carbon from the co2 in the air.. I also believe and presume there would be authority but can not remember mine..so this is suspect..mmm..everything is suspect when you think of it...
Plants evolved in a 3% co2 air content..which is now only 1% approx?..so as the co2 goes up the plant life does better..well that may or may not be so but I tell you up home the trees have taken off... its like Day of the Trifids the way they come in...up the top is like a forrest...where I was going to put a pier needs the chain saw..and the forrest down at Sandys..it only went in 18 mths ago..I have never seen tree grow so fast... could they be already helping getting more co2.. mm we need another study.

I did not suggest our mate has any chance of pulling the solar thing off my point was once this was nonsense.. but a man with such a view heads a billion dollar New York listed company..an ex Sydney sider ..neat eh... if he says it I would still wait and see... he may be a leader that changes much..he already has.

Or another way of looking at him...any one who can make a billion or two I wont dismiss as not having a chance.
alex

[joe_smith]

Without wanting to offend anyone

no offense taken by me mate

This ability to adapt and to take advantage of any situation is what makes us dominant species on this planet. Did our the evolution come to the end.?

we are the dominate species that has wipe out 100s of species of animals including our own, in 1803-1833 us in our lucky new country wiped out 1000's of Tasmanian Aborigines. we striped millions of acres of trees and forest. Put more pollution into the atmosphere then all of the volcano's on earth. I say that makes us the stupidest species on the planet that will eventually wipe it self out and along with everything with it. the biggest disaster to happen to the earth is modern man.

How many of you have ever been hungry? I don’t mean being stuck in traffic jam for couple of hours with no KFC or Mac Donald’s in sight.

on a lighter note I dont think we will have that problem today as you can walk from one maccers to the next anywhere in the world now BUT, what you suffered all those years ago is still in place in the world today and will never change.

Alex got probably best advice that come from this debate. Global warming – if its coming for what ever reason - adapt to it and make money from it

You know thats sadly a true fact. People make money from war, people make money from people being sick and dieing and people make money from people staving to death seems you can make a buck anywhere..............

[joe_smith]

So many points being raised

Plants evolved in a 3% co2 air content..which is now only 1% approx?..so as the co2 goes up the plant life does better..well that may or may not be so but I tell you up home the trees have taken off... its like Day of the Trifids the way they come in...up the top is like a forrest

Did you know thats also an effect of our planet warming up, plant life will thrive. I read an article in Sky and Telescope about how our sun will end, I guess many of have read it also, and it say plant life will be the dominate species along with insects. I guess we will evolve into fertilizer at that stage.

[matt]

ANU Media Alert
News from The Australian National University

TUESDAY 10 JULY 2007
LEADING SCIENTISTS TO DE-BUNK THE DEBUNKERS

Scientists from The Australian National University and Stanford University will address the scientific flaws and half-truths in the claims of climate change skeptics at a public forum at ANU this Friday, July 13, from 1pm-2.30pm.

Entitled “Debunking The Great Global Warming Swindle” the forum will critique the claims aired in The Great Global Warming Swindle to be televised on ABC TV Thursday evening.

The forum will focus in particular on claims that global warming is not due to greenhouse gas emissions but other ‘natural’ causes.

Speakers and topics at the symposium will include:

·Dr Janette Lindesay, Fenner School of Environmental Science at ANU: The Science of Global Warming: Instrumental Records

·Professor Robert Dunbar, Stanford University School of Earth Sciences: Lessons from the Past: Manmade Climate Change versus Solar, Volcanic Forcing

·Professor Malcolm McCulloch, ANU Research School of Earth Sciences and CoECRS: Why we should Avoid Dangerous Climate Change: Risks, Thresholds and Mitigation

Following the presentations the forum will be open for general discussion and questions.

The public and media are welcome to attend.


Something I just received via email notification.

Could be interesting for ACT folks

Shame about the time of day for the forum, though.

[ving (David)]

bring on the iceage!

[xelasnave]

I can finally understand why one would rather look at big brother or the simpsons ...it is a real worry ....gw or whatever the future with the growth in population holds many chalenges..and until a major major event forcing action we put off the day of reconning when we run out of stuff..be it weather or fuel.. I find that scarey on a bad day..on a good day ..humans will push thru ... or something better will take our place .

really when you really think about ..in a worst case scenario... the way Mr Gore presents it he sell well the evidence such one must be concerned... I think there would be some who have a worst case scenario both of effect and of time frame..serious starting tomorrow... its seems that such a time will be in humans future history ... mmm a worry indeed...
And the plant thing as Joe pointed out..are triffids possible..mmm..
We need to move off the planet ..who's coming ?
alex

[joe_smith]

I least I have something in common with the triffids we both love music

I don't think we have to worry in our life time about major change just minor ones. I'll book a seat on the next ship out of here "Space the finial frontier"

To survive as a species we have to travel out in space or we are doomed as a species as the planet will be destroyed by the sun anyway, but going by our track recored we'll will be extinct sooner then that.

[cahullian]

Even if we could change things for the better if we all pulled together it will never happen. I walked to the local shopping centre today (about 400 m ) and two neighbours who live closer than I do drove there and back. I also picked up pages of junk mail laying on the ground and two plastic bottles. I walked passed a pizza box and about half a dozen other bottles discarded.

I am on the green energy grid (not cheap) and use long life low power lightbulbs but I also like my beer cold and we have three cars in the house now the kids are adults they want their own freedom to go where they like when they like. I do insist that I drive us all to work and school each day so we use one car for that.

All in all I try my best but contribute as much harm to the planet as the next person.

Gazz

[casstony]

Pessimism breeds apathy and nothing gets done. (not aimed at any particular poster)

Better to prepare for the worst but hope for the best.

[joe_smith]

Thats the whole problem you, me, them and us, we cant do anything about it its like a runaway train. As i said in one of my post we are 100% depended on fossil fuels without it we cant survive and countries would topple. The only thing I can see happening is its all down hill for every living thing on mother Earth thanks to modern man.......... But the good thing is we are safe now and for many years to come, I pity the poor people in 200 years time

[casstony]

It certainly seems like an uphill battle, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to reduce our impact on the planet. It's not a big jump from where we are now to the point at which we can efficiently use solar power. Government scientific research organisations could be better funded and governments could offer large cash prizes to private enterprise if they reach a certain goal. I wonder what could have been achieved with those multi-billions of dollars wasted in Iraq? If the west can develop appropriate technologies and give/sell them to China we might have a chance.

[astroron (Ron)]

Recieved today http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6290228.stm

[matt]

Interesting read, Ron

Certainly worth adding that to the discussion 'mix'.

There is always the danger that if we ascribe too much of what's happening 'down here' to what's going on 'up there', then we are not looking closely enough at our own activities.

I think it's in our nature to blame something far off or 'other' for what's going on, rather than hold a mirror up to ourselves and be willing to do the hard, difficult things.

I'm not personally convinced one way or the other, yet.

But certainly food for thought and I'm keen to keep reading and listening to both sides of the argument.

Also gives us another interesting topic of discussion when we catch up at Cambroon

[M110 (Andrew)]

I'm getting on to my local polititian and demading we get some of that global warming. Hobart seems to be missing out as usual.lol

[xelasnave]

Who will head the delegation asking India and China not to open 800 coal powered plants??? (the ones that will provide heat and power to many without it now).

Lets start a list of folk who would like to see their world not change and select from that group..

We could send the head of the formula one racing association... or the head of the drag car association... that guy behind the v8 super cars..he could give them many reasons why they need to cut back... Your population can freeze so our population can have their V8s.. yeh they could buy that.. our population has bought similar crap.

All the wasters of energy and the wasters of resourses must be able to offer reasons why they can waste and the rest of the world must fix it up... will they stop their waste..no..no..no. so why should anyone bother if the wasters go on wasting. They mess it up we fix it up..not likely ..get real or give up on it..

I will do something if they do something first...

Dont you get it .
.the hypocracy.
. the worst sin of all.
.dont do as I do do as I say.

. those who "have" are worried that if those who "do not have it" get it, it will get hotter so someone else must pay..

how much carbon to produce a 4wd that never goes off road with a truck power plant, how much energy wasted in the city office buildings the factories etc that leave the lights on...

I have done my bit and purchased a new 5 watt and a 10 watt light (the curley energy efficient one Mr Gore said to get) to replace the 25 watt...

I wiped the two solar panels so they will be more efficient, put an extra blanket on the bed so that will be less wood on the fire...

I dont feel guilty and wont be made so by the gluttons who say one thing and do another.

They are my last words ever on this subject.

Over to you Mr Gore.

alex