Online/overseas shopping about to change re GST

[Kunama]

All this Harvey Norman bashing seems to bypass the fact that Harvey Norman, and many thousand other businesses that may benefit from this new system, employ many many thousands of Australians, Australian who otherwise might be out of work and then in no position to buy anything from here or overseas....

I have often read the laments and complaints here on IIS that several astronomy related businesses have closed their doors in Australia, perhaps by the same people who now moan about having to pay to import cheap goods into Australia...

Australian employers like Gerry Harvey have to pay wages, provide sick leave, Superannuation, insurance etc..... all things that are 'foreign' to the bulk of the manufacturers most buyers obtain goods from.....

Just typing out loud......

[Zuts]

Originally Posted by Kunama

All this Harvey Norman bashing seems to bypass the fact that Harvey Norman, and many thousand other businesses that may benefit from this new system, employ many many thousands of Australians, Australian who otherwise might be out of work and then in no position to buy anything from here or overseas....

I have often read the laments and complaints here on IIS that several astronomy related businesses have closed their doors in Australia, perhaps by the same people who now moan about having to pay to import cheap goods into Australia...

Australian employers like Gerry Harvey have to pay wages, provide sick leave, Superannuation, insurance etc..... all things that are 'foreign' to the bulk of the manufacturers most buyers obtain goods from.....

Just typing out loud......

I agree, I don't think you would find HN paying under award wages like some other franchises.

My daughter works part time in retail at a shop in Sydney and gets around $45 per hour on a Sunday. Sure you could abandon Australian businesses but then what?

[lazjen (Chris)]

For me, I think it's fair for the GST to apply across the board - equal playing field. It's the issue with overseas companies geofencing us because of it. I think there needs to be a way that I can order from some overseas company and for me to handle the GST at this end if necessary.

[Stonius (Markus)]

As a consumer, I feel indignant that I can't buy from overseas. They went and globalised the economy and now they're telling me I can't benefit from that same globalised economy?
But as a voter, companies have to respect sovereign laws; there needs to be a level playing field. Why should I, a small business, or anyone who doesn't have access to a tax haven and an army of financial strategists, have to pay taxes where a multinational doesn't. We all pay for the infrastructure we live with and then wonder why everything is so much cheaper when we buy overseas from companies who don't bear that same cost. I'm sure I could offer to work for rates that undercut my competitors if I didn't have to pay tax and they did.
If you want a functioning society, you have to pay tax. What multinationals are doing is no better than dole bludging, in my book.
You want to play in the Australian market, you got to pay. Simple as that.

-Markus

[luka]

I don't think that most of us have a problem paying GST on overseas purchases. The problem is the way the government decided to do it. The result is an artificial geofencing of Australia and less competition in an already uncompetitive Australian market.

And to people defending Harvey Norman and the likes, yes they provide jobs and pay taxes in Australia. However, they all play a really dirty game. Using the example few posts up, how can anyone justify Dymocks selling a book for $420 + $40 shipping (with 6 weeks waiting time) while it is USD$88 on Amazon, ready to be shipped the same day?

Price gauging and extreme profit margins are a regular occurrence in the Australian market. The rise of the internet and globalisation gave us a way to break out of this and to make our market competitive again. However, the recent GST changes play straight into Harvey Norman's (and the likes') hands by putting a (partial) fence around Australia again.

And let's not even go into the lack of availability of the products/content from the local retailers.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Everyone wants the cheapest products, many made in slavery/slum conditions by people on starvation wages, whilst also wanting to live in a country like ours, with all its benefits ( paid for by taxes ).

If you want truly cheap products, emigrate to a low cost country.

Andrew

In a lot of ways that is just rubbish. I have bought a fair whack of car parts online form overseas. Given that I can buy parts (Made variously in Spain or Japan) from the US where they have to have them shipped to the US (After being shipped from origin, packed, put on a pallet, packed in a container, trucked to a port, put onm a ship, shipped by sea, taken off at a port, put on a truck etc etc etc) repacked in the US and shipped to Australia where it finally lands on my door at a small fraction of the local price (Think $50 for a pair of die cast aluminium door handles, pre painted the right colour where locally it was nearly $300 for ONE plastic one, in undercoat)

Thanks Gerry, love your work. As they cant be effed dealing with the GST the dealership I have been buying stuff from in Texas for ten years effectively no longer ships to AU. They don't say so explicitly but since the change was introduced they have simply set their freight to AU so high that I might as well buy locally.

[pmrid (Peter)]

Originally Posted by luka

I don't think that most of us have a problem paying GST on overseas purchases. The problem is the way the government decided to do it. The result is an artificial geofencing of Australia and less competition in an already uncompetitive Australian market.

And to people defending Harvey Norman and the likes, yes they provide jobs and pay taxes in Australia. However, they all play a really dirty game. Using the example few posts up, how can anyone justify Dymocks selling a book for $420 + $40 shipping (with 6 weeks waiting time) while it is USD$88 on Amazon, ready to be shipped the same day?

Price gauging and extreme profit margins are a regular occurrence in the Australian market. The rise of the internet and globalisation gave us a way to break out of this and to make our market competitive again. However, the recent GST changes play straight into Harvey Norman's (and the likes') hands by putting a (partial) fence around Australia again.

And let's not even go into the lack of availability of the products/content from the local retailers.

Hear, hear!!

Peter

[multiweb (Marc)]

Maybe we'll start manufacturing goods in Australia instead of importing everything.

[doppler (Rick)]

I wonder how much imported goods really affect HN anyway. The bulk of their sales are on large items that you wouldn't buy from OS. 90% ? of the store is filled with large items such as bedding, furniture, white goods, TV's, computers. They should stick with what they have and not try and corner the whole market.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

I had zero sympathy for Gerry Harvey when he started complaining about online retailers being able to undercut him, and trying to draw a line between that and GST not applying to items under $1000.

When he started complaining, the HN website was not even up to the standard of the utterly terrible websites that the likes of Target had in the day. Complaining about online retailers eating your sandwiches on small items that are easily shipped from anywhere in the world when your online presence amounted to a PDF copy of a junk mail brochure and trying to imply that the GST was the difference is a bit rich.

I don't know if the situation has changed but the original logic behind the $1000 threshold was supposed to be the compliance and collection costs being greater than the revenue.

[FlashDrive (Poppy)]

Originally Posted by The_bluester

I don't know if the situation has changed but the original logic behind the $1000 threshold was supposed to be the compliance and collection costs being greater than the revenue.

Yep...exactly as you've said ... costs out weighted the benefits of collecting the Tax.....would cost more with a ' negative ' return

Col....

[LewisM]

All I am saying is good luck to the Federal Government and Aus Post - you'll both need it! It is going to be a nightmare, and certainly going to pi$$ off a LOT of people.

How about we organise boycotting HN and JM for a month - see how the weasel likes it.

[astroron (Ron)]

I would not buy from Hardly Normal if it was the last shop in town.
Greedy little Grub.
I buy from overseas mostly because Australian retailers don't sell the product here,and if I asked them to order one in for me would only do what I would do ,then stick their mark up on top of that.
So much for a government that talks the talk with globalization yet doesn't walk the walk when it comes to unhindered freedom of trade.
Cheers

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

All I am saying is good luck to the Federal Government and Aus Post - you'll both need it! It is going to be a nightmare, and certainly going to pi$$ off a LOT of people.

How about we organise boycotting HN and JM for a month - see how the weasel likes it.

I have already installed my boycott of all the companies on the list that was published of shops that lobbied government for this imposition.

[doug mc]

A few hundred years ago,most of the wealth was in the hands of the top few percent. Thanks to liberal economics we will end up there again. Nothing new under the sun.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by The_bluester

In a lot of ways that is just rubbish. I have bought a fair whack of car parts online form overseas. Given that I can buy parts (Made variously in Spain or Japan) from the US where they have to have them shipped to the US (After being shipped from origin, packed, put on a pallet, packed in a container, trucked to a port, put onm a ship, shipped by sea, taken off at a port, put on a truck etc etc etc) repacked in the US and shipped to Australia where it finally lands on my door at a small fraction of the local price (Think $50 for a pair of die cast aluminium door handles, pre painted the right colour where locally it was nearly $300 for ONE plastic one, in undercoat)

Thanks Gerry, love your work. As they cant be effed dealing with the GST the dealership I have been buying stuff from in Texas for ten years effectively no longer ships to AU. They don't say so explicitly but since the change was introduced they have simply set their freight to AU so high that I might as well buy locally.

Yes, this is the *real* issue. I have no problems paying GST on Internet based purchases. What I do have a problem with is greedy local distributors and retailers price gouging Australians. This is why Internet purchases became so popular in the first place...

Our government(s) lack the balls to fix the root cause of the problems, instead they protect greedy local businesses, and punish hard working Australians. Sounds about right for the LNP.

Originally Posted by The_bluester

I had zero sympathy for Gerry Harvey when he started complaining about online retailers being able to undercut him, and trying to draw a line between that and GST not applying to items under $1000.

When he started complaining, the HN website was not even up to the standard of the utterly terrible websites that the likes of Target had in the day. Complaining about online retailers eating your sandwiches on small items that are easily shipped from anywhere in the world when your online presence amounted to a PDF copy of a junk mail brochure and trying to imply that the GST was the difference is a bit rich.

I don't know if the situation has changed but the original logic behind the $1000 threshold was supposed to be the compliance and collection costs being greater than the revenue.

GH is a greedy wanker. 'nuff said.

Originally Posted by LewisM

All I am saying is good luck to the Federal Government and Aus Post - you'll both need it! It is going to be a nightmare, and certainly going to pi$$ off a LOT of people.

How about we organise boycotting HN and JM for a month - see how the weasel likes it.

Nah. Australia post will just hold anything coming in from overseas. They'll blackmail hard working Australians into paying extortion, oops, I mean GST, and if nothing is paid, they'll simply keep the goods and re-sell them for a profit! Win/win for the Australian government.

Originally Posted by astroron

I would not buy from Hardly Normal if it was the last shop in town.
Greedy little Grub.
I buy from overseas mostly because Australian retailers don't sell the product here,and if I asked them to order one in for me would only do what I would do ,then stick their mark up on top of that.
So much for a government that talks the talk with globalization yet doesn't walk the walk when it comes to unhindered freedom of trade.
Cheers

Same. Wholly agreed Ron.

We have a lot of "grubs" in Canberra. I say nuke the *******s, it's the only way to be sure. In fact, all politicians should be bloody well sterilised as far as I'm concerned. Stop the buggers breeding.

My advice is to simply stop buying as much as possible from Australian based businesses. If we boycott enough businesses, it'll hurt the economy and hurt the government. I'll support local business when it stops price gouging and anti competitive behaviours. Until then, I say screw you.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Kunama

All this Harvey Norman bashing seems to bypass the fact that Harvey Norman, and many thousand other businesses that may benefit from this new system, employ many many thousands of Australians, Australian who otherwise might be out of work and then in no position to buy anything from here or overseas....

I have often read the laments and complaints here on IIS that several astronomy related businesses have closed their doors in Australia, perhaps by the same people who now moan about having to pay to import cheap goods into Australia...

Australian employers like Gerry Harvey have to pay wages, provide sick leave, Superannuation, insurance etc..... all things that are 'foreign' to the bulk of the manufacturers most buyers obtain goods from.....

Just typing out loud......

pray do tell how so? GH and co will just raise prices more, to grab more $$$$. That's what greedy gits like GH do.

GST on Internet purchases was NEVER about tax income for the government - it was always about the lobbying that private businesses based in Australia have done, oops, I mean bribed our Australian politicians to do. Again, our constitution says nothing about businesses having the right to vote, or influence our government(s). I'm curious as to why our governor general isn't sacking the entire LNP government for abusing the constitution. Oh but wait, he can't...Malcolm Fraser saw to that with various legislative amendments...there is no watch dog in Australia that monitors our politicians and punishes them.

Let's consider all bills passed in the senate with the votes of all of those pollies who were not legally entitled to be a MP due to the citizenship clauses in our constitution. They should be ALL be repealed and voted on again, by MPs who are legally entitled to be MPs. Said illegal MPs should be thrown in jail for fraud against the commonwealth of Australia. All income earned during their illegal reign should be paid back, with full interest. Nah, will never happen...and the majority of Australians are both too lazy, and too stupid to realise this stuff. No wonder our country is going down the gurgler.