What a Sad World

[leon]

Rom after reading your response, you are spot one mate.

Leon

[raymo]

Rom's last post almost exactly describes my son in law's position.
raymo

[Boozlefoot]

Having previously been involved in a police force I have had the unfortunate opportunity "to see over both sides of the fence". However, when my own divorce was finalised (many years ago) I was endlessly hounded for child maintenance by the nameless government lackeys, trying to garner my meagre wages for many months. It culminated in written threats of imprisonment if I failed to comply. I invited them to come and arrest me as threatened, and it was only then that they realised I HAD 100% CUSTODY of the children and was raising them on my own. The offices in "control" of these situations do seem to have a tunnel vision with regard to marriage breakdowns and unfortunately it IS gender biased.

[leon]

That is unbelievable it just shows how stupid, and cant work out their box some agencies are, anything out of the ordinary they become puzzled at what to do next, until in your case it hits them over the head.

Leon

[csb (Craig)]

There have been some clear examples, posted here, of how the courts appear to support the woman against the man. So now I see how the courts appear to favour the woman. Easy to see how a bloke could be driven to despair.

However I think this is not so much the system itself but the woman using the courts/police/legal aid to her advantage against the man. So something is wrong with the system when it can be used to ruin someone.

Another issue brought up, in an early post, is that there is purposeful demonising of men "by vested interests". To me it seems that the prevalence of this accusation from men is more common than any actual demonising by any groups. I can't say I've noticed any significant orchestrating of anti-male propaganda.

This stuff is similar to other conspiracy theories and usually given with little supporting evidence or the stated evidence causes you to ask, "How would he know that?".

Just my thoughts.

[raymo]

It is quite possible that Craig doesn't move in the circles where he is likely
to come across this demonising. Over the years I have had the misfortune
to be closely involved with social workers, womens' refuges, and the like,
and can say that I have been on the receiving end of VERY thinly veiled
hostility from a number of women employed [or volunteering] in those
areas, social workers in particular. Many of them are young women fresh
out of uni with still wet ink on their degrees, and who have little experience
of the world out there. The older female social workers are much less
hostile.
raymo

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Originally Posted by AussieTrooper

Yep. Sad. And it's only getting worse. This kind of attitude has seen the number of male teachers drop to near zero in many schools. Men are too scared to take the job, as they know that one day they will almost certainly be accused of something.

As a teacher I find this comment rather offensive ranking on the absurd. There are less male teachers in PRIMARY schools as they tend to gravitate to the high schools. Seriously sometimes I think our own paranoia and overthinking is causing many issues.

[Orionskies (Julian)]

Some of the derogetry attitudes posted in this thread towards women are a disgrace. It's attitudes like this that turn to violents. Men and women should be able to stand up for their rights without the language of violence.

Julian.

[csb (Craig)]

You're correct Raymo, I don't work in those areas. You are saying there are individual women, in welfare & community agencies who show bias against men. These individuals work in all areas. But I would think they don't usually organise.

I may be wrong. However, I work in health care, which is predominantly female, and there no groups that show anti-male tendencies.

Rom's post talks about active conspiracies against men:

Originally Posted by el_draco

The sad truth is that we MEN have been demonised by vested interests.

[raymo]

Julian, What I was describing has nothing to do with standing up for their rights;. they exhibit varying amounts of hostility toward men in general. I'm not saying that they are organised, just that those organisations seem to have an inordinate number of such women
in their ranks.
raymo

[Orionskies (Julian)]

Originally Posted by raymo

Julian, What I was describing has nothing to do with standing up for their rights;. they exhibit varying amounts of hostility toward men in general. I'm not saying that they are organised, just that those organisations seem to have an inordinate number of such women
in their ranks.
raymo

I was addressing the posts and men's attitudes on a whole not an individual post but thank you for replying.

Perhaps the agro towards men by women in these organizations is just the sad fact that it is MEN who are aggressive and violent towards each other and woman. And these woman probably falsely carry that attitude through their professional lives and apply it to all men.

What I find sad it is often the children who are over looked just look at all these posts. Hardly any addressed the fact that it was Leon grandchild who was most vulnerable and may of bore the brunt of this over zealous lady.

Julian.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Orionskies

Perhaps the agro towards men by women in these organizations is just the sad fact that it is MEN who are aggressive and violent towards each other and woman.

Not exclusively by a long shot, this conveniently ignores any and all violence carried out by women in a family setting, including against children, where they are in fact the main perpetrators. I have spoken to women who have freely admitted using strong violence against their partners and I have seen it with my own eyes, including trying to stab their partners in rage (not self defence), they can talk about it quite openly because they feel it is no big deal, almost funny. So no wonder violence by women is not considered in the narrative around family violence, most people, including the women to whom you refer above, just dismiss it as irrelevant... and this is wrong.

Mike

[Orionskies (Julian)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Not exclusively by a long shot, this conveniently ignores any and all violence carried out by women in a family setting, including against children, where they are in fact the main perpetrators. I have spoken to women who have freely admitted using strong violence against their partners and I have seen it with my own eyes, including trying to stab their partners in rage (not self defence), they can talk about it quite openly because they feel it is no big deal, almost funny. So no wonder violence by women is not considered in the narrative around family violence, most people, including the women to whom you refer above, just dismiss it as irrelevant... and this is wrong.

Mike

Thanks Mike. I definitely agree that not all violence is perpetrated by men. And dismissing any violence is just plain wrong. I also feel that posts that are dismissive of violence towards women are ignoring reality.

The overwhelming majority of violence is caused by men it's just the way we were created and sadly raised.

Cheers Julian

[astroron (Ron)]

I watched a video on FB last week,a woman was giving a guy a thorough smacking,with punches to the head and body,also using the most violent language, and he never retaliated at all for at least three minutes
She backed him against against a wall and continued to throw punches at his head and other parts of his body.
People tried to stop her but she continued the assault.
In the end he could take no more and gave her a right to the chin which stopped her in her tracks, and she started to bawl her head off.
If it would have been me,the assault would not have gone on that long.
I have seen woman on quite a few occasions assault men, and men do nothing about it but walk away.
Women are just as capable of assault as men.
I don't condone violence by any sex,but I reserve the right of the man to defend himself.
Cheers

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Orionskies

Thanks Mike. I definitely agree that not all violence is perpetrated by men.

Good, because it is certainly the case.

And dismissing any violence is just plain wrong.

Also good, because that is just basic fairness

I also feel that posts that are dismissive of violence towards women are ignoring reality.

Only partly true, being dismissive of violence towards women is certainly very wrong because it certainly happens at unacceptable levels..but the reality is that a lot of domestic and family violence is also perpetrated by women and just not reported or highlighted, or when it is reported it is dismissed as somehow different and caused by mitigating factors far more than it is for men.

The overwhelming majority of violence is caused by men it's just the way we were created and sadly raised.

A commonly held understanding in the family violence narrative, like doing abdominal crunches will make you lose weight, seems perfectly logical and infomercials tell us this on a daily basis...but this is simply not true. In the case of family and domestic violence, it is certainly a little more complicated.

There are many studies in various journals and from many places around the World that point to a different reality on many levels when it comes to domestic, relationship and family violence. It is our perceptions that cloud our judgement, it is easy to believe what we hear most often but if you actually delve in more deeply on these sorts of issues, things can start to appear different or at least your long held understandings can be challenged.

Here is one list of about 286 studies that suggests an alternative reality to the popular perceptions...perhaps they were made up..?.. but if you google each study separately they are all real and can be read for yourself

REFERENCES EXAMINING ASSAULTS BY WOMEN ON THEIR SPOUSES OR MALE PARTNERS: AN ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY

This is not to say that there aren't also studies that have different findings but most people would not realise that these 286 studies exist.

In the end, all I am saying is in this current push to curb family and domestic violence, understand the differences between Intimate Partner violence and Family Violence and even if they are somewhat less in number, let's not forget all the male victims of family and domestic violence, nor think that women and mothers don't perpetrate domestic and family violence, because they do and significantly so.

Mike

[Atmos (Colin)]

I think it may have been the head of Vic Police a year ago that quoted some stats to the effect of:
"75% of spousal abuse is man against woman but 75% of child abuse within the family unit is by the mother."

Not an exact quote or exact numbers but the stats show that generally (as a VERY BROAD stroke) it is husbands abuse wives but mothers abuse children.

[leon]

This thread has totally gone off track, from the original post, and had nothing to do with violence toward men and/or women.

It was about a little girl who was upset because her Grandad loved her.

Leon

[dbowie (Brenton)]

Leon I think we all sympathise with you and your grandaughters situation, I sure do, I too have experienced it to some extent with my nieces and nephews and it does cut deep on both sides, however even though it seems like the thread has gone off track unfortunately all the points made are pertinent to the situation namely the all too often unjust villification and strong mistrust of men overall (your original point) and their standing in the Australian community, I welcome the varience of comments because it is a snapshot of opinion and fact thought but not often seen and a conversation that must be had openly, and in a mature forum such as this I believe threads should be allowed to evolve in a positive fashion...my two cents....

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by leon

This thread has totally gone off track, from the original post, and had nothing to do with violence toward men and/or women.

It was about a little girl who was upset because her Grandad loved her.

Leon

Sorry Leon for my contribution to your feeling that this thread has deviated from your original post but Brenton has summed it up pretty well I think. I see a connection between your original story and what I have highlighted. To me it relates to the perception of men in Australia and the misleading and twisting of the full story around a number of things, including the omission of important components and facts in the family and domestic violence campaign, is contributing to this.

Mike

[astroron (Ron)]

Reported