Total Blackout in all of SA

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by glend

Now this goes to the heart of the matter of global warming.

Actually... no it doesn't.

The real problem here is the subversion of the Bretton Woods agreement and the faustian deal the US did with the Saudi's in the 70's.. ie) offering legitimacy and protection to the brutal and illegitimate Wahibi thugs in exchange for the Opec/Petro-dollar scheme. <--- Giving the US treasury a licence to print fiat money until the came cows home. (currently moo-ing at the front gate)
The US economy is insolvent by any perverse interpretation of the definition, and will basically collapse to third world status should the world wean itself off oil, or more accurately, stop trading oil in exchange for US dollars. Hence this BS proxy war against Russia (in Syria and the Ukraine)
The US is engaged in a fight to the death and renewable energy is basically one of the termites eating away at its last remaining crutches.
There is of course a bit more going on here (such as the Yinon agenda), but that's pretty much the nub of it.
~c

[xelasnave]

It sure is a mess Clive how would you fix it...
I know tax wind and Sun.
Seriously what can be done to ensure USA remains on top if they fall it will be like Rome falling.
And the plumbing will be gone again.
Alex

[drylander (Peter)]

I'm Sorry Clive but I think you need a tinfoil hat. Renewables will never replace base load power and in first world countries that is what is needed. Just look how many building are all electric. Also manufacturing needs high amounts of steady base power for steel production etc. The problem with wind generation is it only generates power in a limited wind band and as they are alternators they need power to excite them to produce power. They do however make really exciting roman candles when they catch fire. Alternative sources are fine in 3rd world countries however once they attempt to improve themselves to 1st world then the problems occur and base load is needed. Coal, gas or nuclear power are for now our only options.
Pete
(leaves soapbox for next person)

[glend (Glen)]

The ABC was reporting that the Whyalla smelter was probably a lost cause due to the loss of power to the blast furnace and control systems and steel works hot handling system was having to be shutdown and recovery would take a long time. Just what a struggling business needs. Sourced from the Whyalla News website as well.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by drylander

I'm Sorry Clive but I think you need a tinfoil hat.

Peter... you are skilled in the art of ad-hominem.. that point aside
Can you point to anything I said that isn't factually correct?
I'm guessing you are just another Hasbara troll?... say it ain't so!

[Stonius (Markus)]

The biggest tragedy of the SA blackout was the fact that it was cloudy. Moonless night, stargazing from urban Adelaide? What could be better? :-)

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

It sure is a mess Clive how would you fix it...

Alex... the problem is of a cultural nature.
The technology and resources are there when we are (collectively) ready to stop being a$$holes... I'm not holding my breath.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Actually... no it doesn't.

The real problem here is the subversion of the Bretton Woods agreement and the faustian deal the US did with the Saudi's in the 70's.. ie) offering legitimacy and protection to the brutal and illegitimate Wahibi thugs in exchange for the Opec/Petro-dollar scheme. <--- Giving the US treasury a licence to print fiat money until the came cows home. (currently moo-ing at the front gate)
The US economy is insolvent by any perverse interpretation of the definition, and will basically collapse to third world status should the world wean itself off oil, or more accurately, stop trading oil in exchange for US dollars. Hence this BS proxy war against Russia (in Syria and the Ukraine)
The US is engaged in a fight to the death and renewable energy is basically one of the termites eating away at its last remaining crutches.
There is of course a bit more going on here (such as the Yinon agenda), but that's pretty much the nub of it.
~c

Can't argue with that. Pretty much nailed it. Nothing will change because people either don't remember or don't want to. We're too far in now. Can't wind back the clock. Mistakes on top of mistakes. It was a one way trip. Now we're heading for it. That's the only certainty in all of this.

[skysurfer]

Originally Posted by glend

Now this goes to the heart of the matter of global warming. No amount of hand wringing Green politics in Australia is going to stop the rest of the world ignoring the problem and going flat chat making it worse. The developing world get to point the finger at first world nations as the cause while getting away with horrible environmental practices. China, India, Africa, South East Asia, are pumping out greenhouse gases like mad, and their local environments are rapidly becoming toxic.
Australia cannot stop global warming, our output is insignificant when viewed in the context of the global problem. China is adding more to the problem each year than we could save in ten years.
That's not to say we should not do our bit to meet targets, but our effort, even on target, is pretty meaningless. Come the dry season Indonesia will be burning off more old forests to clear land for farming, adding mega tonnes of locked up CO2 to the atmosphere, with no sense of responsibility. Not everyone is on the same page. I can forsee an environment like that portrayed in Blade Runner in the not so distant future. An incentive to leave the polluted hive that is earth for a new world. At present the Earth is infested, and people are the problem.

The difference however that per person the carbon footprint is far worse in the developed world than in e.g. India, China, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ons_per_capita

Even Australia is one of the worst. Because of the low population of only 40 million Australians living on the same space as 1.6 billion Chinese, Australia makes of course seemingly far less pollution.
The reason that the 3rd world countries are so polluting is that we in the western world let produce our stuff like every-2-years-a-new-cellphone in these countries as in these countries the environemtal laws are far less strict than in AU, US, EU or whatever Western country. Western companies are (ab)using space in Indonesia for e.g. palm oil plantations and pay the farmers for burning off forests billowing soot and CO2 into the atmosphere resulting in respiratory problems in Sumatra, Singapore ans Malaysia. Luckily for Darwin inhabitants, the smoke blows to the west.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by skysurfer

The difference however that per person the carbon footprint is far worse in the developed world than in e.g. India, China, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ons_per_capita

Even Australia is one of the worst. Because of the low population of only 40 million Australians living on the same space as 1.6 billion Chinese, Australia makes of course seemingly far less pollution.
The reason that the 3rd world countries are so polluting is that we in the western world let produce our stuff like every-2-years-a-new-cellphone in these countries as in these countries the environemtal laws are far less strict than in AU, US, EU or whatever Western country. Western companies are (ab)using space in Indonesia for e.g. palm oil plantations and pay the farmers for burning off forests billowing soot and CO2 into the atmosphere resulting in respiratory problems in Sumatra, Singapore ans Malaysia. Luckily for Darwin inhabitants, the smoke blows to the west.

Bingo! Been saying the same thing for years. Those who whine about the pollution in the third world need to suck it up and acknowledge that a big chunk of that pollution is generated from the manufacture of the mindless crap demanded by the western world. Until WE take responsibility for it and change our highly polluting lifestyles, we can hardly stand on the proverbial high horse and preach.

[xelasnave]

How can mindless consumption be controlled when all we are fed is you should have bigger better etc.
Look at the shows on house renovation.
Rip up functional kitchens and bathrooms.
Who needs two ovens in a kitchen but that is now the fashion.
Cars who needs a car that does 200 mph plus.
A closet with hundreds of shoes.
Gluttony is the norm and our hero's perpetuate the notion of over the top disgusting consumption.
I live very simply well below the standard I can afford and use as little as possible.
I waste not one morsel of food wear my clothes until thread bear.
And of course I am the nutter but its a pity folk don't live conservatively and attend need not greed.
The market economy encourages greed and glutony and yet the alternative a controlled market fails because even it can't get rid of greed.
And so there is no hope and finally nature may decide our species must go.
We need a world government and me running it that is the only hope for half the human race ...don't ask about what happens to the other half but put it this way consumption with reduce by 50% over night.
Alex

[Nath2099]

Messed up world dude. You sound like a realist... not a nutter.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

How can mindless consumption be controlled when all we are fed is you should have bigger better etc.
Alex

The interesting thing I am seeing at the moment is an increasing number of people walking away from the consumer world, me included. We've eliminated 50% of what our family owned in 12 months and its been liberating. I guess it's going to come down to the personal "wake up" moment for each of us. Just hope enough wake up in time.

[skysurfer]

This graph also shows that western nations are the worst per-capita CO2 emitters.

http://www.wri.org/blog/2014/11/6-gr...op-10-emitters

[Exfso (Peter)]

Looks like the thread has gone off at a tangent

[xelasnave]

Don't you love it when that happens.
Alex

[clive milne]

Incidentally... more on the way.

Weather here in Perth at the moment is pretty intense.
Not a huge amount of rain but certainly one of those days where commercial pilots question their career choice.

[Ric]

I was just looking at some of the footage of the aftermath and the flooding.

I cannot help but be amazed at the stupidity of people, we have footage of a flooding bridge and "Road Closed" barriers across the road and what do I see, people driving around the sign and driving over the bridge.

There is no explaining the logic of some people, I feel sorry for the emergency services workers that have to go in and rescue them when they get washed off or the poor police that have to go and tell the family that their loved one is dead.

[xelasnave]

I knew a guy, dead now, who got caught three times on the same creek, on his way to band practice each time and each time lost his car and music gear.
First timers sortta understandable but this guy knew the creek yet still had a go.
Alex

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Incidentally... more on the way.

Weather here in Perth at the moment is pretty intense.
Not a huge amount of rain but certainly one of those days where commercial pilots question their career choice.

A layover in Dubai when it's 52 C degrees outside (but "officially" a nippy 47 C ) is enough to do that