And if nature decides that for the human race to procreate 'normally' it must include a man and a woman to further the species.
Anyone who says different is deceiving themselves.
So this includes or excludes couples where one partner is infertile? I'm confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH
I'm not saying that they don't have rights and should be treated with respect in other facets of life. But I AM saying, it isn't normal for a child to be brought up by two men or women.
NO, you are saying that "all I can say is that when a pair of guys or a pair gals get together and want to raise kids, any support I may have had for their rights stops right there". So you would like to take away, what you have conceded in your original statement, is one of their rights. You can't have it both ways, you can't say that you don't support their right without meaning that you would like to see it taken away.
Sort of like if I said that I don't support your right to free speech, wouldn't that necessarily mean that I would like you to shut up? I use this as an analogy only, of course you should be able to express your opinion. You should also own up to the fact that it's your opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH
And it's not my opinion, so (Stuart) it's no use labelling me a bigot! - it's a fact of nature and there's no denying that.
See above re it IS your opinion. If you espouse a bigoted viewpoint I will call you a bigot. You have aired what I, and many others here, have deemed to be a bigoted viewpoint, hence the label. I also notice that you didn't complain about being labelled homophobic, is this somehow less offensive to you?
What is a "fact of nature"? Aren't we, as a species, changing the rules all the time? In this case I think that you've mistaken a "fact of nature" for a norm of society, and only our society really, there are many other societies where other than the physical act of copulation the male is superfluous to the rearing of children. As none of can remember the moment of conception, what does it matter if you are brought up by two men, two women or one of both, as long as they are loving and caring?
Where is this trend of accepting any lifestyle that some people want to live, going to lead us?
Men are already starting to wear womens' skirts in public. Wearing makeup is being promoted as normal for straight men (who are not artists).
We will have issues of cross dressers using their own preference of toilet, male or female.
It will become difficult to know who we are talking to or forming a friendship with - early courtship stage only to find the woman is actually a man (perhaps a homosexual crossdresser or a surgical transvestite).
There are many issues that this trend will bring about. And this is not just to do with sexual orientation, there are other lifestyles and personal expressions that are put forward as people's rights which will cause legal/social issues.
The world is becoming a very confusing place. I think society really does need moral/ethical/social standards to function. The right to live whatever lifestyle you choose, because this is my right, is not a true standard that allows for society to function.
........
The world is becoming a very confusing place. I think society really does need moral/ethical/social standards to function. ........
I agree that there must be moral/ethical/social standards that guide us as a society but these standards should not restrict an individuals right to choose their own lifestyle so long as that choice by them does not harm others, nor disadvantage or corrupt minors too young to fend for themselves. Nor should one's lifestyle choice be detrimental to the enjoyment of life by others.
As for men wearing skirts, well the Scots have been doing it since the 16th century, Indian men have worn mundus for centuries, Fijians take pride in the Sulus. I guess it has the advantage of keeping the crown jewels cool.
Perhaps the western men are just catching up. Personally I prefer my lycra cycling knicks
Where is this trend of accepting any lifestyle that some people want to live, going to lead us?
Men are already starting to wear womens' skirts in public. Wearing makeup is being promoted as normal for straight men (who are not artists).
We will have issues of cross dressers using their own preference of toilet, male or female.
It will become difficult to know who we are talking to or forming a friendship with - early courtship stage only to find the woman is actually a man (perhaps a homosexual crossdresser or a surgical transvestite).
There are many issues that this trend will bring about. And this is not just to do with sexual orientation, there are other lifestyles and personal expressions that are put forward as people's rights which will cause legal/social issues.
The world is becoming a very confusing place. I think society really does need moral/ethical/social standards to function. The right to live whatever lifestyle you choose, because this is my right, is not a true standard that allows for society to function.
Yep, Tend to think that having the right to do whatever you want is a major reason why we are in trouble on soooo many levels. We are becoming a species of "individuals" who do do whatever we want even if its at the expense of the environment, someone else or society in general....
Men are already starting to wear womens' skirts in public. Wearing makeup is being promoted as normal for straight men (who are not artists).
We will have issues of cross dressers using their own preference of toilet, male or female.
It will become difficult to know who we are talking to or forming a friendship with - early courtship stage only to find the woman is actually a man (perhaps a homosexual crossdresser or a surgical transvestite).
My question to you is 'So?'
In what way does you walking past a man wearing a skirt or makeup have any affect on you, your family, your job, your lifestyle, or any number of things we as a society think of as 'success factors'?
How does a transgender person entering a public bathroom have any effect on your life? Are you worried that standing at a urinal for 30seconds next to a man in a dress will make you gay?
If you're forming a friendship with a person, what does it matter what their 'natural' gender is/was? Does that make then unworthy of friendship? Does it make them a bad person because they made the choice to be true to themselves?
If you are willing to segregate someone based on what they wear, or what genetals they may have, irrespective of wether or not they are a good person, you are just as bigoted as several of the other people who have commented on this thread.
Davin
Last edited by big_dav_2001; 02-11-2014 at 05:53 PM.
perhaps a homosexual crossdresser or a surgical transvestite).
What in God's name is a surgical transvestite?????
Is that someone who has a dress sewn onto them.....???
If you mean a transsexual who has had a sex change, then your education or lack of it is affecting how you reach a vallid response.
A transsexual has to jump through a lot of hoops before they get any surgery.
A lot more than you did before you got to make babies..
Excuse me, those weren't pics of men in women's skirts.
This is a photo of me 10 years ago embarrassing my sister at her 21st birthday party... My question again is "So??"
I guess in your eyes, this makes me gay?? Or perhaps I should just be arrested because in a man in a skirt in a public place??
It's small-minded views such as yours that make it near impossible for members of the gay community to be accepted as part of society. Because of views like that, gays and *******s feel the need to 'come out' rather than just be accepted as another person who is as free to sleep with someone they love as any heterosexual person. Personally, I don't care in the slightest who a person choses to sleep with, a good bloke is a good bloke regardless of who he is attracted to. Who am I (or you) to say their entire beliefs/morals/values/dress sense is wrong, just because they don't conform to standardized social perceptions of 'normal'?
(For the record, it was a "pimps and ho's" theme party, I decided to go against the grain ... My dad agreed to pay for my drinks the entire night, as long as every drink was bought at the bar on the opposite side of the club from our function room)
Being Gay is no longer a "disease" to be caught or a result of upbringing etc.
The fact that someone has the courage to openly declare their sexuality to the world should be applauded rather than be met with comments like "who cares" or "keep it to yourself". In fact I am glad people think to themselves: "who cares" because it shows a level of acceptance in that statement that being gay is becoming accepted rather than being reviled as it used to be.
I honestly don't care if you are gay, *******, straight, racist, homophobic, intolerant or bigoted. You have every right to be who you are and express your opinion.
What I object to is ANYONE who puts anyone else down or views others as "abnormal" because they are not the same as they are, or don't believe what they themselves believe.
Fullstop.
If you are different to me, then so what? I am a male, 44 year old straight man with a wife and three boys, who are 14, 18 and 20.
If any of my sons declared to me that they were homosexual, it wouldn't make me love them any less. It is their right as a human being to be, act and live any way that they like. If they wanted to raise kids in such a relationship, then I would encourage that as I believe that children can be loved as much by two men or two women just as much as a man and a woman in a parental role. If anyone said otherwise, then I would fight for their rights with everything I had.
If you don't agree with me, then I don't care. You have every right to have an opposing opinion.
I hope that today and in the future, that if I see ANYONE in the street being discriminated or abused by anyone else because they are different, whether it is because they are gay, *******, a different colour, male, female, of a different race, religion, mentally challenged or even if they are old, or infirm, then I would come to their defence and stand up for their rights to exist as a human being and exist as a PERSON who has their own beliefs, rights and expectations to be treated with respect by others, no questions asked.
Until EVERYONE thinks this way, then we will have conflict online, in the world and on the streets, simply because not everyone can understand that it is everyone's basic human right to be different than the person sitting next to you.
The bottom line is this: I am an individual, who has every right to believe what I want to believe. If my opinion or belief differs from you, then I WILL NOT impose this onto you, out of respect for you. Just like I would expect YOU not to impose your beliefs onto me.
Everyone has the right to believe what they want to believe, their actions, based on those beliefs, is how they are judged by others.
I could care less about homosexuals, melanin-enriched people, Asians, Muslims, Catholics, straights, French, Canadians, morbidly obese, chronically depressed or even Americans and so on ad infinitum.... just so long as they do not touch or hurt me and my family nor try to openly influence WITHOUT consent in any way, I am more than happy to let them live their lives the way they want, and they should respect my decisions too - and so it should be.
The minute their ideals are openly shoved down people's throats is when my hackles get's raised - be it door to door religion, gay mardi-gras, American 4th of July... I thankfully do NOT watch TV anymore, so even less exposed to the rhetoric and propaganda.
Live and let live, but hurt me and/or my family and prepare to pray to whoever you believe in.
I just don't get this Coming Out stuff. Just shut your damned mouth and live your own life. I don't go around screaming to the media "I am straight, have a wonderful wife and 2 great kids and successful" - I don't need to, because I believe in myself and the sanctity of my family.
I could care less about homosexuals, melanin-enriched people, Asians, Muslims, Catholics, straights, French, Canadians, morbidly obese, chronically depressed or even Americans and so on ad infinitum.... just so long as they do not touch or hurt me and my family nor try to openly influence WITHOUT consent in any way, I am more than happy to let them live their lives the way they want, and they should respect my decisions too - and so it should be.
The minute their ideals are openly shoved down people's throats is when my hackles get's raised - be it door to door religion, gay mardi-gras, American 4th of July... I thankfully do NOT watch TV anymore, so even less exposed to the rhetoric and propaganda.
Live and let live, but hurt me and/or my family and prepare to pray to whoever you believe in.
I just don't get this Coming Out stuff. Just shut your damned mouth and live your own life. I don't go around screaming to the media "I am straight, have a wonderful wife and 2 great kids and successful" - I don't need to, because I believe in myself and the sanctity of my family.
I used to also think "So what ? " when it came to the gay folk and their struggles. Something along the lines of "keep it to yourself mate."
Then I had the chance to converse with a few gay blokes who told me their stories. Sounded horribly like what happened to black people in America in the 1800's - 1900's, or Jews in Germany before the war, or women before they got the vote and maybe after ...
I think that when we treat each other as we'd like to be treated ourselves ... we'll be ready to be called a civilisation.
It is a pity that domestic violence could not be addressed with the same passion as runs thru this thread.
I believe one murder per week in Australia.
I must check that figure as surely it must be incorrect.
Nevertheless domestic violence is a problem we seem to ignore.
Personally I prefer my lycra cycling knicks 
