Don't mention the ....

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by stanlite

In truth there is really nothing stopping anyone from forming their own one person company that hires themselves out to do work. Doing this you circumvent income tax by being a company then pay for everything as business expenses, thus no profits and no business tax. The only difference between the rich and the average man is knowledge and willingness to take the time to do it.

If you are the owner of a pty ltd and take a wage let's say of $10k, you'd have to put $3k in taxes and $1.2k in super so you need to generate $14.3k of money + GST (1.4K). $15k gross will give you $10k nett. If you buy a business car it's a company asset, so not 100% tax deductible. You pay company tax. It is a common misconception from employed people to think that having a business allows to claim everything as business expenses. You still have to pay your taxes. And your super. When you're employed, your employer pays your super, and sick leave and holiday pay and also group tax because he's employing you. I don't get any sick leave or holiday leave.

[AndrewJ]

But that is the thing people still have to have a paper trail to their wealth if they hide it with someone else or in some structure they still need a way to prove its their wealth otherwise anyone can take it.

It also requires that the cost to the "collectors" is less than what would be recovered, and when you get to the wealthy, there are so many legal loopholes that its not funny. Funny how lawyers/politicians always seem to make laws that cant be enacted in a black or white manner

As an example in this day and age, i regularly listen to the ABC when they give free legal advice to many people re "simple" unpaid debts and getting payment from people. In most cases the advice is you need to run a case in the magistrates court and unless the debt is more than 5thousand dollars or so, it will cost you more, and still no guarantee of getting paid.
Imagine the costs to pursue a rich operator who has set up complicated family trusts with nested family companies etc.
The forensic accounting costs, let alone legal costs would be horrendous.
I know who will end up with the money, and it wont be the collectors.

Andrew

[JJDOBBER79 (Jas)]

Tax wealth....... I dont believe Im hearing this. Large business is who employs everybody in this country. There is a lot of talk of looking after small business, what about big business? This is where all of our money comes from. Should they get significant tax breaks? IMHO they definately should. Lets look after them before they decide that its too costly to do business here and go offshore. As far as budgets etc, heres my 2c.

This is how it works, always has, always will;
Labour spend all of our money - Liberal save the money - Labour spend the money - Liberal save it etc etc etc.

I for one think this is great and should continue this way. Why? Because the end result is that we have the best country in the world. If anyone disagrees with that take a look at the european economies or the US. So this sytem, like it or not, works.

as far as getting us out of the s**t goes. Heres a radical idea. GET RID OF CGT!!!! Then everyone can actually make some money. It is counterproductive. We should be encouraging people to self fund their retirement so that they wont be a burden on the government......genius.

[cfranks (Charles)]

Originally Posted by JJDOBBER79

........ Heres a radical idea. GET RID OF CGT!!!! Then everyone can actually make some money. It is counterproductive. We should be encouraging people to self fund their retirement so that they wont be a burden on the government......genius.

I agree JJ. I remember when Hawke got in for the first time. One of his electioneering quotes was " Let me put it in words that even the Liberals can understand! THERE WILL BE NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX" I think it was not very long after the election that it was introduced.

Charles

[AndrewJ]

Labour spend all of our money - Liberal save the money -

I reckon they both spend more than they earn ,
but labor does get the nod as the biggest spender.
The big difference to me is the Liberals keep steadily selling the family silver so the purse doesnt "appear" to be so empty.
Dunno what the answer is, but based on recent experience, im sure politicians and "economists" arent it.

Andrew

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by stanlite

A good option that might be possible in a few years with help from technology is getting rid of income tax and moving to a wealth tax. Where you are taxed on your total wealth each year rather than earned wealth each year. This avoids tax loopholes like being paid in shares or cars ... ect.

We already have wealth taxes.

All real estate is subject to council rates based on land value - that's a wealth tax.
Real estate outside the family home is subject to another wealth tax, called land tax.

And capital gains tax, is a wealth tax on the growth in wealth in all asset classes excluding the family home (family home is excluded for obvious reasons - if the price went up and you had to move somewhere else, you'd never be able to afford the same priced property).
Regards,
Renato

[JJDOBBER79 (Jas)]

Tax wealth....... I dont believe Im hearing this. Large business is who employs everybody in this country. There is a lot of talk of looking after small business, what about big business? This is where all of our money comes from. Should they get significant tax breaks? IMHO they definately should. Lets look after them before they decide that its too costly to do business here and go offshore. As far as budgets etc, heres my 2c.

This is how it works, always has, always will;
Labour spend all of our money - Liberal save the money - Labour spend the money - Liberal save it etc etc etc.

I for one think this is great and should continue this way. Why? Because the end result is that we have the best country in the world. If anyone disagrees with that take a look at the european economies or the US. So this sytem, like it or not, works.

as far as getting us out of the s**t goes. Heres a radical idea. GET RID OF CGT!!!! Then everyone can actually make some money. It is counterproductive. We should be encouraging people to self fund their retirement so that they wont be a burden on the government......genius.

[JJDOBBER79 (Jas)]

Posting the same thing twice was a mistake not an attempt to reiterate my point. Sorry.

[Octane (Humayun)]

You can edit the duplicate post and delete it, by going into the advanced section.

H

[Retrograde (Pete)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

I was watching Paul Murray Live tonight who was passionately making the case for the $20billion medical research fund, that is to be funded by the co-payment on Doctor's, X-Ray, Pathology etc visits.

Despite the point that you shouldn't limit access to health today to achieve a potential health outcome tomorrow, I'd like to believe that this fund is as good as they say Renato.

Why is it that the government suddenly so interested in medical research when they are simultaneously ripping the guts out of CSIRO? Without more detail we can only guess.
I don't suppose Tony Abbott perhaps has friends in the pharmaceutical industry?

[casstony]

I'd be a lot happier with moderate Liberals running the country. AFAIK Turnbull doesn't have an ideological bent against the CSIRO, renewable energy technologies and the ABC. Abbott must be one of the most hated men in politics by both sides and he's an embarrassment to Australia in the same way that Bush was to the US.

[traveller (Bo)]

Not fair to compare Abbott with Dubya, Bush was re-elected

[el_draco (Rom)]

I haven't been able to find anyone who will admit to voting for this party, except for a certain mother in law, (nough said ....); funny about that.

To all those who did, wonder what you think now of "Mr honesty, and no surprises". I predicted EXACTLY what the last elections would produce on both a National and State levels (Tas). I just hope both are one term disasters and more people learn that if they want to vote at all, they ought vote for independents....

Scary thing is, despite being a totally loopy loop, Palmer has been talking some sense. OMFG!!! I actually said that!

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by casstony

I'd be a lot happier with moderate Liberals running the country. AFAIK Turnbull doesn't have an ideological bent against the CSIRO, renewable energy technologies and the ABC. Abbott must be one of the most hated men in politics by both sides and he's an embarrassment to Australia in the same way that Bush was to the US.

I'd be happy if the current Labor crew, Shorten and any of his possible successors like Plibersek, Bowen and Albanese looked anything remotely like the fiscally responsible former ALP leaders Hawke, Keating, Crean and Beazley. Or like Bracks and Brumby in Victoria.

But it's not always the case that Labor spends and Liberals save. The Liberals in WA have built up such a huge debt, they're moaning for an increased GST to get them out of strife.

As for Abbott, he's repaired relations in Asia which were mangled by his predecessors. And as for influence, when China decided to scrap its trial emissions trading scheme, it cited Mr. Abbott and the Coalition! And the political capital in Asia for leading the search for the missing jet cannot be underestimated.
Regards,
Renato

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by JJDOBBER79

This is how it works, always has, always will;
Labour spend all of our money - Liberal save the money - Labour spend the money - Liberal save it etc etc etc.

Fascinating thing is we had this enormous income from a resources boom and both parties pissed it down the loo. We should have set up an enormous Sovereign Wealth fund and we'd be living off the interest now. Its a myth that Liberals save money. Costello spent huge amounts on bonuses and tax cuts but nobody seems to remember that.

Our system is as much a failure as much as most other countries. We are lead by self important liars = politicians = lawyers who have a manifest interest in *****ing at each other at our expense.

Every "election" they say one thing then turn around and do something else, blaming the opponent for not telling the true state of public affairs; (In the real world, that's fraud). Well folks, this time you elected a doozy but I doubt anyone will learn from the experience we are all about to receive.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Renato1

I'd be happy if the current Labor crew, Shorten and any of his possible successors like Plibersek, Bowen and Albanese looked anything remotely like the fiscally responsible former ALP leaders Hawke, Keating, Crean and Beazley. Or like Bracks and Brumby in Victoria.

I think we're almost in violent agreement here , in that we need middle of the road, not left wing loonies or right wing ideologues.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by casstony

I think we're almost in violent agreement here , in that we need middle of the road, not left wing loonies or right wing ideologues.

What we need is all the clowns in Canberra to stop this pointing fingers circus and work together. Put differences aside and move in the same direction for a change. Then we'll go somewhere. Leave the politics out of it and get on with the job. Money doesn't grow on trees.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Fascinating thing is we had this enormous income from a resources boom and both parties pissed it down the loo. We should have set up an enormous Sovereign Wealth fund and we'd be living off the interest now. Its a myth that Liberals save money. Costello spent huge amounts on bonuses and tax cuts but nobody seems to remember that.

Our system is as much a failure as much as most other countries. We are lead by self important liars = politicians = lawyers who have a manifest interest in *****ing at each other at our expense.

Every "election" they say one thing then turn around and do something else, blaming the opponent for not telling the true state of public affairs; (In the real world, that's fraud). Well folks, this time you elected a doozy but I doubt anyone will learn from the experience we are all about to receive.

But don't forget - we are still the wealthiest country in the world on a median basis (2013 Credit Swisse World Wealth Report).

I actually noticed it last year when we were in Cinque Terre in Italy. In the train station, after the early rush, there were only seven people there waiting to buy tickets - my wife and I from Melbourne, another couple from WA, another couple from NSW and a woman from Queensland. That night we had dinner with a couple from Tamworth, and the people in the table next to us were from Tasmania.

I don't think we realise how good we have it down here, especially compared to the state of permanent austerity now in Europe, or of working like manics in Asia. I just want a government that takes steps to keep it that way.
Cheers,
Renato

[traveller (Bo)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

What we need is all the clowns in Canberra to stop this pointing fingers circus and work together. Put differences aside and move in the same direction for a change. Then we'll go somewhere. Leave the politics out of it and get on with the job. Money doesn't grow on trees.

Agree 100% Marc, BUT we have an adversarial system of government, not a cooperative system. 90% of our politicians are lawyers/career politicians who relish the thought of point scoring over each other's woes. The 24 hour news cycle is also driving this relentlessly for our entertainment...
Bo

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by traveller

Agree 100% Marc, BUT we have an adversarial system of government, not a cooperative system. 90% of our politicians are lawyers/career politicians who relish the thought of point scoring over each other's woes. The 24 hour news cycle is also driving this relentlessly for our entertainment...
Bo

True, that doesn't help. Just putting more gas on the flame. Anyway it's going to be a real hard sale in the senate so we're likely to end up with a half assed budget again and go nowhere. Can't help people who don't want to be helped.