Six ways to fix Australia's finances without cuts

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

Maybe, I don't know the workings of the financial system, so I cannot comment on that.
I wish I did, I would probably be a lot richer, but then, that would be wrong, wouldn't it?

Excessive debt is poison to individuals and nations yet banks thrive on creating debt.

The big northern hemisphere banks infiltrate government in order to weaken regulations which are designed to prevent the banks from acting badly. After lending out all available funds, the loans are repackaged into investment products to be sold to unwary investors of all descriptions around the world. After replenishing their funds they lend it all out again, repackage the loans and flog them off to investors, and on and on the cycle goes. The real beauty of this is that once the repackaged loans (securities) are sold off the bank no longer has any responsibility for them, so the bank can confidently make dodgy loans that will never be repaid knowing that it's the end investor who will suffer when the loans go bad.

Normally periodic recessions get rid of malinvestment but so much debt has been created that a depression is required to solve the world's financial problems; having backed us all into this corner governments and central banks are trying to avoid depression by creating even more debt to prop up economies. It's looking like it's going to end badly one way or another and it's a situation created by the banks.

More than one US President has denounced banking institutions as the greatest threat the nation can face.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by casstony

Excessive debt is poison to individuals and nations yet banks thrive on creating debt.
...
More than one US President has denounced banking institutions as the greatest threat the nation can face.

Nobody is forcing people to borrow. It is a choice. The problem is not the banks or the government or the marketing agencies. It is us. Supply and demand. There was a discussion not so long ago how bad fast food companies were, "poisoning" people, making them sick, etc... let's tax them some said, let's shame them other would say. Some food companies tried to do the right thing. PEPSI being one of them if I recall correctly. They nearly tanked. They had to re-inject 500 million dollars into advertising over the period of one year to get back up to speed selling sodas. Bottom line, people don't want healthy food. They want fat salty burgers and super sweet drinks. Dying from it is a side effect.
Nowadays everybody wants everything yesterday. The big house, the big car, the big TV, brand clothing. Worry about the bill later. If they want to save and get it a bit later that works too...

[casstony]

Originally Posted by multiweb

Nobody is forcing people to borrow. ...

The Plebs don't understand market cycles and they don't understand how the financial systems work. The Banks use their knowledge to take advantage of the people's ignorance, create a mountain of debt and make billions of dollars in profit.

To illustrate the point at a local level I'll refer to the recent four corners program on the CBA's deceptive financial advice and insurance practices - who is to blame there, the ignorant customer or the informed but evil bank?

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Tony, the same can be said for any sales oriented business, whether it be building, car sales, holidays, IT, TVs, furniture, sunglasses etc etc.

Consumers don't understand enough about what they are doing/buying to fully understand what is happening. They enter into things with emotion rather than reason, and business takes advantage of that.

Think about people buying a car, how often do they do it? On average once every 10 years, the car sales person sells to people how many times per month, 10-20? Who has the negotiation advantage? Certainly not the person spending their money.

[multiweb (Marc)]

People in trouble always seem to blame someone else or something else as if they were victims, conned into it. If they sign for it then they ought to think twice and make sure they understand the consequences and responsibilities. That's all there is to it and we're all in the same boat. No excuses.

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

People in trouble always seem to blame someone else or something else as if they were victims, conned into it. If they sign for it then they ought to think twice and make sure they understand the consequences and responsibilities. That's all there is to it and we're all in the same boat. No excuses.

But Marc it really wasn't my fault, honest! The Big Mac called to me and told me buy the BMW and the 65" TV, I just couldnt resist, then as soon as the bank approved my credit increase that I asked for, but that I didn't know I couldn't afford, I was in.

[casstony]

You guys are frying the little fish and missing the big ones, which is exactly what the banks want. I feel you don't comprehend the critical size and nature of the problem created by Wall Street and London bankers.

[BPO]

Be like the people of New Zealand: Put absolutely every cent you have into nothing but residential property. Do not diversify. Tell yourself, "Ya can't lose with houses!" and fantasise about a lavish retirement based on the flimsy assumption of a huge capital gain. Deny the existence of a rapidly-inflating residential property bubble, while repeating the mantra, "Un Zull'n Us Duffrunt!"

What could possibly go wrong?

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by casstony

You guys are frying the little fish and missing the big ones, which is exactly what the banks want. I feel you don't comprehend the critical size and nature of the problem created by Wall Street and London bankers.

I used to have shares which I all sold pre April 2000 so I know how the game works. I just don't play it anymore. I know better and more importantly where my money is.

[Kunama]

Don't take this banter too seriously guys ............
I do feel that many find it easier to blame someone else for their lot than see that it is mostly their own doing. I see newlyweds building 5br 3 bathroom mansions all on borrowed monies and then wonder where it all went wrong.

Wealth creation is a case of "hasten slowly... else you'll live to regret".
Big risks end up in big disappointments more often than not.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by BPO

Be like the people of New Zealand: Put absolutely every cent you have into nothing but residential property. Do not diversify. Tell yourself, "Ya can't lose with houses!" and fantasise about a lavish retirement based on the flimsy assumption of a huge capital gain. Deny the existence of a rapidly-inflating residential property bubble, while repeating the mantra, "Un Zull'n Us Duffrunt!"

What could possibly go wrong?

Ah mate, I needed that laugh so bad.... best thing that's happened to me today. Also explains why Aussies love Kiwis so much..... especially Richard Hadlee !!

[el_draco (Rom)]

Here's a new one. ...

Hockey and his cronies spent $50k on lunch the other day. We footed the bill!!

That's your average mugs income for a year; (2000 hours work!), and he pissed it off on lunch. Nough to make your blood boil until you hear that his office considered it an excellent value lunch.

I'd like to audit his fat bum off this rock.

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Here's a new one. ...

Hockey and his cronies spent $50k on lunch the other day. We footed the bill!!

That's your average mugs income for a year; (2000 hours work!), and he pissed it off on lunch. Nough to make your blood boil until you hear that his office considered it an excellent value lunch.

I'd like to audit his fat bum off this rock.

First a couple of facts. Hockey was hosting a G20 dinner in Washington which was setup by the former labor government. Hockey elected to fly in a Aussie chef to promote Aussie cuisine [barramundi, Victorian Wagyu beef, WA truffles and Tasman honey] He was proud to promote Aussie food and wine...good on him. Either way Australia was the host for this dinner and either way we would foot the bill. The choice...use American products or use this opportunity to promote Australian produce.

It's not the first time politicians (both Labor & Liberal, State & Federal) have done this. For the record I am not supporting Liberal or Labor

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

First a couple of facts. Hockey was hosting a G20 dinner in Washington which was setup by the former labor government. Hockey elected to fly in a Aussie chef to promote Aussie cuisine [barramundi, Victorian Wagyu beef, WA truffles and Tasman honey] He was proud to promote Aussie food and wine...good on him. Either way Australia was the host for this dinner and either way we would foot the bill. The choice...use American products or use this opportunity to promote Australian produce.

It's not the first time politicians (both Labor & Liberal, State & Federal) have done this. For the record I am not supporting Liberal or Labor

It horrifies me that anyone would contemplate doing such a thing for ANY reason. Its a disgraceful waste of resources and just demonstrates how these mongrels live in a fantasy land of oppulence. They eat cake whilst an ever increasing number of people in their own countries go without the basics of life. Make me want to hurl.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

First a couple of facts. Hockey was hosting a G20 dinner in Washington which was setup by the former labor government. Hockey elected to fly in a Aussie chef to promote Aussie cuisine [barramundi, Victorian Wagyu beef, WA truffles and Tasman honey] He was proud to promote Aussie food and wine...good on him. Either way Australia was the host for this dinner and either way we would foot the bill. The choice...use American products or use this opportunity to promote Australian produce.

It's not the first time politicians (both Labor & Liberal, State & Federal) have done this. For the record I am not supporting Liberal or Labor

Too true. You don't want to look like a cheapskate on a G20 lunch overseas. You're there to sell your product and services. Some people just don't get that...
To put that cost in perspective to the money we currently own on labor's credit card, if the bill was rounded down to 10 million dollars that lunch would have costed the tax payer 83c. The media like their BS stories. That's how you tell it.

[blink138 (Pat)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

Too true. You don't want to look like a cheapskate on a G20 lunch overseas. You're there to sell your product and services. Some people just don't get that...
To put that cost in perspective to the money we currently own on labor's credit card, if the bill was rounded down to 10 million dollars that lunch would have costed the tax payer 83c. The media like their BS stories. That's how you tell it.

ha ha marc you are SO liberal methinks that if it was labors lunch bill we were talking about you would be the first baying for blood!

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by blink138

ha ha marc you are SO liberal methinks that if it was labors lunch bill we were talking about you would be the first baying for blood!

Mate, it's not Joe's or Bill's lunch, it's a G20 lunch hosted by Australia. That's it. Doesn't matter which side. Now if you want to read about the long list of 'other' money spent wisely by labor, too long to list here. When labor makes some money I'll be the first to applaud them.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Yep... I agree and would go further.
Surely it is self evident that irrespective of one's political inclination the current economic system is not serving us. It is not surprising because one of its base premises is a mathematical absurdity.

Out of all the hot air expended so far this comment is closest to the nub of the issue. Once you understand that our economic system is not stable in the long term, everything else is rearranging the deck chairs. Real progress can will only be made once we accept that our economic system needs to be transformed. We need a system that does not require continuous growth and where quality of life is the goal. Fundamental change is not easy, but the worthwhile things rarely are.

Originally Posted by casstony

You guys are frying the little fish and missing the big ones, which is exactly what the banks want. I feel you don't comprehend the critical size and nature of the problem created by Wall Street and London bankers.

Yes, I suspect I don't understand the problem. However to blame the bankers makes it sound like the problem is an aberration caused by human fallibility. These people are the premier representatives of capitalism. The best and brightest. If they are leading us into a crisis it's because there is no other path under capitalism.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Yes, I suspect I don't understand the problem. However to blame the bankers makes it sound like the problem is an aberration caused by human fallibility. These people are the premier representatives of capitalism. The best and brightest. If they are leading us into a crisis it's because there is no other path under capitalism.

David - I shake my head. The people you think are providing the best leadership are criminals. They intentionally falsify loan documents, they break existing laws, and they infiltrate politics in order to weaken banking regulations, all of this in order to maximize profits.

After the Savings & Loans crisis of the 80's and 90's there were more than 1000 criminal convictions for major fraud. The latest fiasco is much worse yet barely anyone has been jailed - there's a lot wrong with the system.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Out of all the hot air expended so far this comment is closest to the nub of the issue. Once you understand that our economic system is not stable in the long term, everything else is rearranging the deck chairs. Real progress can will only be made once we accept that our economic system needs to be transformed. We need a system that does not require continuous growth and where quality of life is the goal. Fundamental change is not easy, but the worthwhile things rarely are.




Yes, I suspect I don't understand the problem. However to blame the bankers makes it sound like the problem is an aberration caused by human fallibility. These people are the premier representatives of capitalism. The best and brightest. If they are leading us into a crisis it's because there is no other path under capitalism.

Well said mate