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  #41  
Old 15-11-2013, 10:02 PM
cosmophoton (Luiz)
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Perhaps a problem in my monitor? Is that only my impression, or is Mike's AG12 image in fact much better than the Schmidt's one?
Cheers,
Luiz
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  #42  
Old 15-11-2013, 10:57 PM
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madbadgalaxyman (Robert)
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Originally Posted by strongmanmike View Post
Well it looks to me Robbo like something was doing burnouts and doughnuts around this galaxy and has whipped the arms into threads...perhaps the little companion galaxy is the culprit?

Mike
Sounds like the revhead theory of spiral arm formation!

This is a very strange galaxy, in its way, as the question can be asked "why aren't there bright spiral arms in its outer regions, like there are in other spiral galaxies?" Why no bright arms? Perhaps there will be some bright arms, sometime in the future?

Take a look at the following image, which overlays the gas distribution in the outer region of this galaxy with the thin & knotty spiral arms that are seen both in your image and in the GALEX image.
(the cold gas, invisible to the eye, is displayed as green, and the Galex ultraviolet image is displayed as blue)

As you can see, the HI gas (the cold atomic hydrogen gas) forms a sort of "super-sized" spiral that surrounds the visually bright part of this galaxy (the bright part of this galaxy is composed of the ring that surrounds the bar, plus the bar that is inside the ring.).
The interstellar gas in this galaxy extends to many times the radius of the prominent and bright ring structure, which shows that this galaxy extends a long way further out than we think it does.

Click image for larger version

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However, the distribution of stars (as traced by visible light) seems to be very concentrated and bright only till we reach the outside edge of the bright ring structure..... and then the surface brightness suddenly drops drastically outside of this ring structure.
So we have here a galaxy which has formed plenty of stars in its inner part, up to the radius of the bright ring, but which has formed hardly any stars outside of this ring.
(well, there do exist the thin arms outside of the bright ring, but this is hardly a grand and bright spiral structure)

Given that the gas in this galaxy is distributed in a spiral, and that the thin and knotty outer spiral arms seem to be forming in the places where this spiralling gas is the most dense, it would seem that the cause of the thin knotty arms in the outermost regions must be connected with the spiral-like structure that is seen in the underlying gas
( you can't form the stars in spiral arms without having dense gas existing there in the first place, as a raw material for the star formation process.)

There is definitely "plenty of this galaxy existing outside of the bright optical part that is defined by the ring", but most of it is just interstellar gas that is distributed in this very extended spiral pattern.
Perhaps one day, the big gaseous spiral that is outside of the obvious part of this galaxy will form enough stars to make some really bright spiral arms!

My personal view is that this galaxy just needs some more time to evolve, and that the outer gas spiral may one day turn into the bright spiral structure that we are used to seeing in other galaxies.......
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  #43  
Old 16-11-2013, 06:09 AM
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strongmanmike (Michael)
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Interesting...so you think the spiral arms might actually be in the formation stage then..? Didn't consider that

Mike
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  #44  
Old 16-11-2013, 10:11 AM
Ross G
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A beautiful galaxy photo Mike.

I think the best from your current series with the new camera.

I love the colour and the faint detail you have brought out is amazing.


Ross.
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  #45  
Old 16-11-2013, 05:09 PM
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madbadgalaxyman (Robert)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strongmanmike View Post
Interesting...so you think the spiral arms might actually be in the formation stage then..? Didn't consider that

Mike
Yes, I do think that the very-large-scale spiral structure in the extremely-extended outer gas distribution of this galaxy might eventually form lots of stars (instead of forming just a few narrow & faint arms with a few OB stars along them, which is all that this gas has recently formed)

This galaxy is strange, because in nearly all of the other barred spiral galaxies that have a ring structure that surrounds a bar structure, there is plenty of bright spiral structure visible outside the ring;

In contrast, the surface brightness of this galaxy is high till we reach the outer radius of the bright ring, and then.......BANG! the surface brightness suddenly drops to very low levels just outside of the ring.
It is a matter of the density of the stars being high within the radius of the ring, and the stellar density being very low outside the radius of the ring.

I think that an interpretation consistent with the facts is:
- that the inner part of this galaxy has formed in a normal way
- that the outer part of this galaxy is mainly in gaseous form rather than in the form of stars
- that the outer spiral-shaped gas distribution has the potential to form plenty of stars, given sufficient gas density and given sufficient time
- that, given enough time, bright and prominent high-surface-brightness Optically Visible spiral arms might form from the gaseous spiral arms

Best Regards,
Robert Lang

Lopez-Sanchez and Koribalski in 2009 wrote a paper about the gas and stars in the outermost regions of this galaxy; I have got it, but haven't read it yet, as I don't want to be prejudiced by their interpretation.
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  #46  
Old 16-11-2013, 10:10 PM
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Stunning image Mike, as ever yours... ;-)
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  #47  
Old 17-11-2013, 08:52 AM
jase (Jason)
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Stunning barred spiral Mike. Forget the core crop, one must admire the outer reaches of the spiral arms in order to fully appreciate what you've put together. Top stuff.
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  #48  
Old 17-11-2013, 05:39 PM
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strongmanmike (Michael)
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Quote:
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Stunning image Mike, as ever yours... ;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jase View Post
Stunning barred spiral Mike. Forget the core crop, one must admire the outer reaches of the spiral arms in order to fully appreciate what you've put together. Top stuff.
Thanks gentlemen...something a bit different to image - always good huh Jase?
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  #49  
Old 18-11-2013, 09:03 PM
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Rod771 (Rod)
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Excuse my tardiness Mike

What a fantastic image, congratulations!

Great thread too , interesting info.

Cheers

Rod
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  #50  
Old 18-11-2013, 10:07 PM
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strongmanmike (Michael)
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Excuse my tardiness Mike
Rod
Well....I wasn't going to speak to you ever again

Buuuut I forgive you Rod

Glad you liked the view

Mike
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  #51  
Old 25-11-2013, 09:43 PM
Nicola (Nicola)
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Very nice image of a fine galaxy, well done Mike.
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  #52  
Old 26-11-2013, 02:21 PM
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astronobob (Bob)
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The Artiest at work again, very nice looking target and nice work resoving the faint extensions etc. Brilliant '10hr' snap Mike Youd be getting close to Imaging time being less than processing time eh Mike

Last edited by astronobob; 26-11-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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  #53  
Old 26-11-2013, 04:50 PM
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strongmanmike (Michael)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
Very nice image of a fine galaxy, well done Mike.
Cheers Nicola

Quote:
Originally Posted by astronobob View Post
The Artiest at work again, very nice looking target and nice work resoving the faint extensions etc. Brilliant '10hr' snap Mike Youd be getting close to Imaging time being less than processing time eh Mike
Cheers Bob, yes, exposure time and processing time were probably pretty close on this one ...I am a bit of a time waster though, what with all the research for the comparisons etc

Mike
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  #54  
Old 28-11-2013, 01:24 AM
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Very cool galaxy with a lot of detail there Mike. I like it a lot and it shows what a great scope can achieve.
Just one small quibble - and that's the title. An invisible arm is just that, if you imaged them they ain't invisible.
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  #55  
Old 28-11-2013, 09:03 AM
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strongmanmike (Michael)
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Originally Posted by allan gould View Post
Just one small quibble - and that's the title. An invisible arm is just that, if you imaged them they ain't invisible.
Cheers Allan

Ah yes..t'was meant to be a contradictory title...now wait to see if Rick can prove my cloths aren't invisible too

Mike
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