Whats happening in the good old USA

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by MrB

Operating a gun involves very little risk to the user, it is a cowards weapon.

Ever in your life handled and fired a weapon???? What a naive simplistic view...I will pass your views on to my military associates...god knows they need a laugh.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Fully automatic assault rifles for the man on the street, total ban IMO.

I agree.

There are no reasons for any private citizen to own a semi automatic weapon. It has only one purpose and we have seen what that purpose is in the latest tragedy.

The range of full and semi auto weapons available in the US is truly frightening.

[TrevorW]

Don't confuse semi automatic and automatic

semi automatic, one has to pull the trigger every time to fire a shot, automatic you only have to pull it once to fire multiple shots

Private citizens can and do own semi automatic weapons for recreational purposes and others for making a living

I do not condone a total ban on firearms, as this will only force firearms underground and more so into the hands of criminals

[TechnoViking (James)]

Its a terrible thing that happened, and it scares the hell out of me!, almost every year something like this happens!

Why would a woman would have automatic weapons in her home? Why where they not locked in a safe?

Things like this really make me wonder where the human race is going...

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by TechnoViking

Its a terrible thing that happened, and it scares the hell out of me!, almost every year something like this happens!

Why would a woman would have automatic weapons in her home? Why where they not locked in a safe?

Things like this really make me wonder where the human race is going...

Nothing has really changed James. People have been killing people since man first walked upright. The only thing that has probably changed is man continually makes it easier to do so.

[TechnoViking (James)]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

Nothing has really changed James. People have been killing people since man first walked upright. The only thing that has probably changed is man continually makes it easier to do so.

When i was young things like this were so rare, almost unheard of! I was only talking about this today with my neighbor who is in his mid 60's, and we are both completely dumbfounded by these senseless killings. I have not been watching the news since this happened as i have children around the same age as the children murdered and I really dont want to expose them to this kind of violence. Have they found out why he killed those children, any reasoning behind it?

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by TechnoViking

When i was young things like this were so rare, almost unheard of! I was only talking about this today with my neighbor who is in his mid 60's, and we are both completely dumbfounded by these senseless killings. I have not been watching the news since this happened as i have children around the same age as the children murdered and I really dont want to expose them to this kind of violence. Have they found out why he killed those children, any reasoning behind it?

Mass killings have happened throughout history. The biggest change today is that it is beamed into our lounge room as it happens. The biggest disadvantage of the modern age. Before, we lived in ignorant bliss.

[TechnoViking (James)]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

Mass killings have happened throughout history. The biggest change today is that it is beamed into our lounge room as it happens. The biggest disadvantage of the modern age. Before, we lived in ignorant bliss.

I must say, i miss living in ignorance then

[blindman]

It'not gun laws - it's all about people, and how State treats people.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by TechnoViking

I must say, i miss living in ignorance then

Me too.

[MrB (Simon)]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

Ever in your life handled and fired a weapon???? What a naive simplistic view...I will pass your views on to my military associates...god knows they need a laugh.

Yes I have.
Don't see your point?

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by MrB

Yes I have.
Don't see your point?

Point is that labelling everyone that uses a gun a coward is simplistic, narrow minded way of thinking. In the case of this tragic incident, which was the subject of this thread, the perpetrator of this crime is a coward because he was armed and his victims were not. In a war scenario all combatants are armed so its an even playing field and I would hardly think calling someone a coward in this case is justified. I would love to see you call VC recipients Donaldson and Roberts a coward to their face rather than implying it facelessly on a forum.

[MrB (Simon)]

Okay, point taken.
But perhaps while you and your military buddies are chuckling away at my expense, you will pose this question....

Which scenerio would they prefer?

To shoot at their enemy from a distance, from behind a rock, or a wall or from within the relative safety of an armoured vehicle, or
Hand to hand combat where all they and their enemy have is a knife or a sword.
This is an even more even playing field than you mention.
I am pretty confident which answer you will get.

This is my point, the gun takes away some of the risk and to a certain extent it de-humanises the killing process. It's just a distant enemy.
Be it a gun, arrow, crossbow bolt, bomb, missile... they make killing easier and less risky to the operator by largely removing them from the process.
If your only choice was to go in face to face, look them in the eye during the kill, most normal people would think twice.

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Clearly you haven't had any combat experience or read many accounts of previous battles where there was alot of close combat gun battles (just read Roberts account) that were at distances comparable to the so called sword fighting you so revere as more nobel. The introduction of firearms makes it less risk task...hell yes...you want to survive a battle. War is inhumane no matter what tools (Sword, Knife, barehands or firearms) you use.

[MrB (Simon)]

I would think(obviously not done it, but I can imagine it) even close combat gunfight is easier and less personal than having to slit someones throat or strangulation.
I wonder what percentage of the worlds guns used in daily killings are in military hands?
Even tho my original statement was not aimed at the military, and though everything you say is right, I hold my opinion.

[LewisM]

As a firearms USER and collector (mainly collector), I find many comments interesting, some typical knee-jerk reactive, and others well thought out.

As I alluded to in my post, it's not the gun laws in America so much as other underpinning societal factors. Even actor Morgan Freeman sees this:


"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

I have not watched the Idiot Box for 6 years now. Nothing is going to change my stance on that! (the only time the TVis on at home is for our 4 year old watching Play School etc)

[Satchmo]

Lewis you are guilty of the adulation of non - entities, as decribed in the quote which implies that the media is somehow guilty not the gun problem.

Who cares what actor Morgan Freeman thinks or says ?

[Scorpius51 (John)]

I think this discussion has passed its use-by time. This is an astronomy forum, not a pro/anti gun control forum. A tragedy has occurred, so let's leave the tit-for-tat arguments for another place, please!

[Kunama]

Lewis I agree with you wholeheartedly, the sensationalist way in which today's gutter quality journalists report these incidents is appalling, I think in many instances it becomes the 'lure' for these lunatics to have their one chance in life to be famous.

It is not only the USA that has suffered these horrors, remember Port Arthur, Hoddle Street, Norway, a recent mass shooting in Finland. The common 'thread' in all of these to me seems to be that the shooter was a quiet loner who did not really have a group of friends, a social misfit in many regards. Perhaps the victim of bullying getting back at society.

I recently saw a television program where somewhere in the USA a group of middle aged women and men were at a public shooting gallery firing thousands of rounds through automatic weapons as a form of "stress relief", one person being interviewed ( a female, about 40yrs) said it helped her deal with the pressures of running the family household.

Apples don't fall far from the tree!

[LewisM]

I agree that the USA needs more stringent firearms regulations - it's been SLOWLY happening for the last 15 years in little bites. It won't STOP anyone, it will just slow them down, which either gives them time to re-contemplate, or time to fuel the fire.

Nothing will change polarised minds one way or the other. And it's the difference of opinions that add variety and spice to life.