Windows 8

[marki]

Originally Posted by acropolite

I found that having to move the mouse to a corner, then select one of a number of options to be eventually presented with a program list that was larger than the screen was just plain unproductive, inefficient and slow.

Until they bring back the option to reinstate the start menu and it's associated functions I suspect that the OS will be regarded as a dud. Whether MS realise it or not the Start menu and associated launch facilities is efficient, fast to use and logical.

Faster starts mean nothing if the launch mechanism of the OS is disfunctional.

Sorry Phil I cannot agree with you here. For the start menu in Win 7 you have to press the mouse button, shift the cursor to all programs and click again then scroll down the list and click again to execute the file. On win 8 you move the mouse to the top RH corner, click on the start icon and all your programs are there (including all the ones that used to be buried in win 7) and its a simple mouse click to execute, at least the same as win7 if not better depending on your preferences. I used to have all my programs in win 7 on the desktop (in neat folders) as I hated the start menu. Win 8 is meant to run on a touch screen, I got one and its opened up a whole new way of doing things, love it. After 4 days to get used to the differences I am really liking this new format and when I have to use Win 7 at work it feels slow, clunky and old fashioned. Next year all our machines at work (including all 1575 of the kids laptops) will be moving to Win8 and that's why I installed it (to get a head start on the little buggers). Glad I did.

Mark

[Poita (Peter)]

[QUOTE=Barrykgerdes;908953]This market is dominated by computer users who know nothing about the works of a computer, Probably 90% of the world's population but like the simple icon interface that allows them the versatility they require for the tasks they assign to it.

It is not going to suit the average "nerd" who likes to know what is going on so he can make a computer do what he wants.
/QUOTE]

Then there are those of us that choose OSX precisely so we can get under the hood and make the computer do things we want, in ways windows can't.
OSX gives you a Unix shell via terminal, applescript (http://www.macosxautomation.com/applescript/) and automator.
http://www.macresearch.org/tutorial_...entists_part_i
http://www.maclife.com/article/featu...t_live_without

I'm struggling with Windows8 at the moment getting it ready for work, it is interesting to say the least, but not very much like OSX so far.

[Osirisra (Ken)]

The start menu as we knew it is dead, it's a old paradigm that only Windows has been holding onto and now all the users that are stuck in their ways are up in arms, sorry folks, you are going to have to learn to evolve. I'm not looking to all the complaining from my customers tho that's for sure

Agreed Windows 8 is bit of a mess and needs some refining but at least MS is trying to get with the times like OSX and Ubuntu has been for ages.

The idea off the PC doing all the work is also rapidly evolving to a more shared device oriented and connected online experience so it will be interesting to see what's around the courner.

[netwolf]

How about astro software compatibility? It would be great to get a list of what people have tried and is working.

[Tandum (Robin)]

There should not be a lot of difference from Win7 Fahim.
ASAIK the real changes are the user interface and the USB stack.

[marki]

Originally Posted by netwolf

How about astro software compatibility? It would be great to get a list of what people have tried and is working.

Here is what I have successfully loaded so far.

Alignmaster
ASCOM 6
CCD calculator
CCD Inspector 2.5.3
CCD Stack 2
CCDops
Focus Max
MaximDL ver 5.18 and 5.23 (updated)
Maxpoint
Mount Hub Pro
Nexremote
Pempro ver2
Pixinsight
Registar
Starry Night pro plus 6
Sky Pro X

All work fine.


The only problem I had so far was with Adobe CS4, the installer would not run (Adobe's fault). Could be a big hassle for some but if you have the time/expertise/patience to work through it you may have a win not sure if it is possible. I couldn't be stuffed messing around and upgraded to CS6 which went straight on no worries. All my plugins/ATN files work perfectly in CS6 just like they used to in CS4 (astronomy tools V 1.6, gradient xterminator, noise ninja, topaz, HLVG etc). Strangest thing is I loaded an old copy of Adobe illustrator (ver 9,,,,talking 1990's) which would not work properly in win 7 even in compatibility mode yet it loaded straight onto win 8 without any problem and runs perfectly. Also my Canon DSLR drivers are all working again (stopped working in win 7) as does my scanner which also stopped working in win 7 (tried to fix many times with no luck) so I am pretty happy as I have not had to upgrade any hardware besides the SSD which I chose to do.

Mark

[netwolf]

marki, thanks thats a long list. Good to know all that works especially Pixinsight. The other two i would like to hear about are Nebulosity and PHD also Sequence generator pro.

[LewisM]

Took me a decade to "upgrade" from XP to 7... I like letting OS's settle for a while before installing them. I like 7 when you take control of it (change the admin settings so the annoying "admin priveleges" pop up does not happen etc. Basically, I run 7 like XP . My wife has Vista on one of her 2 laptops, and it's an absolute NIGHTMARE. AT least 7 seems like a combination of the good of XP with the good of Vista (not much!).

I won't go to 8 for at least 3 years, if then. Let it settle, let it have SP's, and then MAYBE. Tried it on a friends computer, and it REMINDED me of Mac... which means I had an instant aversion to it. Big W@NK factor to Win 8.

[marki]

Talking to the tech's at school today who have been attending all the Microsoft seminars and courses etc getting ready to set up our network for windows 8 (big job over 2000 computers) next year and one made a very interesting comment. They were told win 8 was only half way to where Microsoft wanted it to be and that they deliberately left in bits like being able to pin program quick starts to the task bar etc as they did not want to alienate the "faithful" too much at first. They aim to move entirely over to an apple type setup so the diehards better hope their XP/win 7 laptops and PC's last for the rest of their lives or learn to write code so they can update drivers etc for new gear. Of course they could always come to terms with the passing of the dinosaurs, embrace change and get with the program . I have a feeling it is going to be a very frustrating experience for those who don't especially support with drivers etc.

Mark

Mark

[Barrykgerdes]

Did they really say that they will be moving to an Apple like system. The Lawyers will love that. They will spend the next few years sueing each other.

I won't be changing to Win 8 or its future derivatives although I will most certainly have it on a computer so that I can utilise any decent advances it has.

I still use DOS whenever I can. It's a lot of fun with the command line although I am quite happy with XP for most tasks. 90% of the use I give my computers is based on programs I wrote in Basic to do mundane tasks and writing reports.

Barry

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by marki

...They aim to move entirely over to an apple type setup ....

Serious?.... I had a feeling that it was too good to be true. No more PC clones. Everything will be hot glued in a s||t pancake style tablet, sorry...iPad style. No more control over our file systems. You want the new OS to run on your old tablet? Tough titties. You'll have to buy a new tablet because the old one is not 'compatible'. What's the end of life for Win7? Hopefully we get another 5 yrs out of it.

[Colin_Fraser]

Microsoft seem to be digging a huge hole for themselves.
For 30 years they have been trying to build a stable OS but seem to have failed on each attempt. They appear to get close to something manageable that the end user gets comfortable with, then, because they cannot fix the bugs they bring out a new OS.The cycle continues.
If they keep going the way they are and if the stories about them wanting to have an Apple type interface, people will move to Apple because it is an OS that works.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Colin_Fraser

... people will move to Apple because it is an OS that works.

Don't think so. Apple like Microsoft has its issues with OS and updates. There are horror stories on both sides. Problem with Apple is that their devices are more like black boxes now. Not scalable or plug'nplay. iPhones and iPods were getting jail broken very early in the process and still are because they're restrictive in the way they want you to use their devices. Microsoft on the other end is still much more open, that's probably why there are more security issues and attacks on their OSs than any others. But this seems to be changing. Every new OS is getting tighter. If the industry moves towards an Apple style model I think it's only going to encourage more jailbreak. I think it's bad to restrict people in using devices only a certain way. The point of having a computer and OS is to be able to customise both hardware and functionality. That's what makes kids smarter and more creative. Not pushing buttons and sliding touch screens on online social media.

[LewisM]

Move to Apple style and I give up and go back to the stone age

Only apples in this household are the fruit kind, and it intends staying that way.

[Colin_Fraser]

Originally Posted by multiweb

The point of having a computer and OS is to be able to customise both hardware and functionality.

Sorry, my mistake. I did not know that was the point in having a computer

[marki]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

Did they really say that they will be moving to an Apple like system. The Lawyers will love that. They will spend the next few years sueing each other.


Barry

As in interface (eg metro which is not copyrighted by apple even if they think they have sole rights to it). Win 8 has been by far the most user friendly out of the box OS I have ever had from Microsoft (and I have had them all including several versions of DOS). No major drama's in loading software (except CS4 but the fault lies with the adobe installer), drivers etc and thus far everything works. It's faster and they finally got rid of the start button setup which I hated with a passion.

Mark

[marki]

Originally Posted by multiweb

Serious?.... I had a feeling that it was too good to be true. No more PC clones. Everything will be hot glued in a s||t pancake style tablet, sorry...iPad style. No more control over our file systems. You want the new OS to run on your old tablet? Tough titties. You'll have to buy a new tablet because the old one is not 'compatible'. What's the end of life for Win7? Hopefully we get another 5 yrs out of it.

If anything Marc it seems to have gone the other way as I see it right now . You have all the freedom you ever had and then some. How long will your PC/notebook last . Seriously Win 8 is fine and when the faithful get over their shock I am sure most will come to the same conclusion. Win 7 was okay as far as Microsoft OS go but I certainly hate to think that was the best they could do as I had my fair share of hassles with it. For me I have to use win 8 for work so I had better just get on with it, yes ???

Mark

[marki]

Originally Posted by LewisM

Move to Apple style and I give up and go back to the stone age

Not a big fan of the apple business model myself, too restrictive for me.

Mark

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Colin_Fraser

Sorry, my mistake. I did not know that was the point in having a computer

Well if I spend a couple of Ks on a machine it's nice to know that I can open it up, change the HD to a bigger size or faster volume, maybe upgrade the graphic card and video drivers down the road or add an extra drive. Or maybe get an external optical drive without having to pay through the nose for a cable to connect it from the 'Microsoft Shop'. You know, basics things. Having options to customise MY pc with cards from various unrelated manufacturers?... If this flexibility and freedom are all taken away then what's the point? Is a PC going to become a consumable black box. Change it all when you have to or when they tell you to becaused it's expired next month with the new OS upgrade? Or something you can't legally open like a beefed up XBOX?

Back in the days I loved Apple Scripts and the way it integrated with the OS. I also think Apple user interface designs and functionality are second to none. The Apple II E was revolutionary already. But I always liked the modularity of PCs hardware. If we lose that we're in trouble. Our wallet's going to suffer.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by marki

If anything Marc it seems to have gone the other way as I see it right now . You have all the freedom you ever had and then some. How long will your PC/notebook last . Seriously Win 8 is fine and when the faithful get over their shock I am sure most will come to the same conclusion. Win 7 was okay as far as Microsoft OS go but I certainly hate to think that was the best they could do as I had my fair share of hassles with it. For me I have to use win 8 for work so I had better just get on with it, yes ???

Mark

I have no doubt they'll get Win 8 right. Personally I like Win7 a lot. Vista was a miss and XP was great. As long as the PC hardware format we all use doesn't change to another chopping board device.