Australian Retailers and bad service. - Page 2

thomo · #21 23-02-2005, 11:11 PM

I ordered a TV Plossl from Bintel a couple of weeks ago. Ordered online on a Monday night, got the auto confirmation by email, but nothing after that to say the order was shipped/delayed/whatever. However, the package turned up at 8am on the Wednesday morning. I have also ordered from Astronomy Online with quick service and hope to have a telescope order in with Lee by mid April when the credit card is back down to an acceptable level.

I know it costs more to buy from the Aussie dealers but with the extra stress ordering overseas, I think it is worth it for most purchases (unless you are getting a really good deal overseas). One thing I would recommend to the Aussie dealers is to get their websites up-to-date. In quite a few cases the prices are outdated, specials aren't on there, and there is no indication of which items are in stock. The Internet provides a large proportion of their sales so they should make the effort to get the info up-to-date!

thomo · #22 23-02-2005, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ballaratdragons
I appreciated that.

I appreciated that.

I appreciated that.

I appreciated that.

He appreciated that.

Sounds like there was a lot of appreciation goin' on!

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #23 23-02-2005, 11:28 PM

Thanks Thomo,

I appreciate that you noticed!

westsky · #24 23-02-2005, 11:48 PM

Hi Thomo,
My experience in buying OS goes back a long time, about 6 yrs, I have had 3 scopes and numerous other smaller items delivered from the US and am yet to find a problem with any transaction, they have all been stress free.
Agreed the dealers here need to update there websites more often there's still dealers who don't have price's or online ordering,one day they will wake up to the real world and realise that online ordering is not a thing of the future it's a here and now thing, people are busy time is short .I research what I want to buy through forum's like this read reviews and make my choice. I want to get the item at the best price most times but am prepared to pay a bit more for good service
I don't have time to go to the shop, most times when I have the time it's when the shop is closed,so online is best for me.
it's time to give the dealers a wake up call.

David.

iceman (Mike) · #25 24-02-2005, 05:56 AM

Quote:

One thing I would recommend to the Aussie dealers is to get their websites up-to-date. In quite a few cases the prices are outdated, specials aren't on there, and there is no indication of which items are in stock. The Internet provides a large proportion of their sales so they should make the effort to get the info up-to-date

Couldn't agree more with this.

David sorry to hear your bad experiences with Bintel. From all reports i've ever read from people who bought stuff there, it's generally been nothing but good remarks. Hopefully it was just a one-off.

I guess this topic has brought up another issue about what should or shouldn't be discussed on a public forum about bad experiences with retailers. While dissemination of information (both good and bad) is a great thing for consumers, I have to find out what that means for myself personally, in terms of liability etc.

I know CN had a section for vendor feedback, where you could b1tch about or praise a vendor, but they closed it down due to the potential for defamation law suits.

I know David was very careful in the original post, not mentioning the vendor, but in Australia it's really not hard to narrow it down since there's literally only a couple of major retailers. In the US there's 10's or 20's of major retailers. It only took a couple of posts in and it was obvious who was being talked about.

Anyway it's brought up a good discussion, but i'll have to speak with the moderators about what it means for the forum and what sort of talk about vendor feedback (good and bad) is allowable.. not to stop free speech but simply because of what implications it might have for me personally as the owner/administrator of this website.

Talk about where to get things from, prices etc is fine of course and unchanged.

rumples riot · #26 24-02-2005, 08:57 AM

Let me chime in.

I have always had very good things happen with the aformentioned retailer. In fact my latest purchase was supposed to be at my house at 9.00 am the next morning. It turned out that TNT do not do overnight service to my area in Adelaide. So the retailer reimbursed me the cash that I had paid for 9.00am delivery.

Now as to defamation. Years ago I was out of work during the recession of the early 90's. I decided to go back to Uni and I studied law. I graduated and practiced law at a small firm in the city, I actually wanted to practice human rights orientated law but got involved in commercial practice. Don't ask me how I go from the Army(cartography) to the building industry to law and then back to the building industry. Its a long story and I get bored easily. I can expalin if you like.

Anyway I digress. Now legal defamation is defined as a statement/s made by a person/s against another that primarily affects their employment, trading ability or their ability to make an income. Since a retailer is most often a company, the company is considered a person also. Now there are limitations upon the above statement and one of them is that a statement is not defamation if it is true. Our legal system does understand that people should be able to criticised for there actions. Bear in mind though that even true statements can be held libelous in certain circumstances. There are too many situations to be defined here.

Unlike the Americans, there has in recent years (30-40) been a common sense approach taken to lega judgements on appeal. Americans can sue for the most insane things. This does not hold true here, the High Court of Australia and Full Benches of the Supreme Courts in each State are most reluctant to go down the path of the American legal system and therefore adopted an approach that looks at the common sense of the situation. This may change though in time.

Anyway, statements such as delivery not being made over night and the like are not likely to cause much of a stir. Especially when this is not the norm. Some one might have been having a bad day. Statements that are totally unfounded are likely to incur the wrath the victim and the Court. My suggestion is that threads like this are pretty harmless and should be allowed. Where someone is making statements such as a previous thread, that needs to be stopped in its tracks and deleted.

Also, this web site located overseas, what that means is that from a jurisdictional point of view the question can be raised, where is the offending statement made? If it is made on the site then it is unlikely that an Australian retailer has the jurisdiction to sue as the statement was made over seas. However, it might be argued that the statements are made on the sovereign soil of Australia and therefore have the jurisdiction to institute legal proceedings to any offending statements.

That aside, I think that if people are careful about what they say, then I won't have to delete their post. I don't delete posts unless they are offensive or legally questionable, since I am legally qualified (and if you want I can post a pic of both my degrees and admission to practice certificates as proof) I will keep a close eye on these sort of issues to protect Mike and this site. Have not had to do that yet, so lets keep it that way.

BTW, Australia does not have the right to free speech, so be careful what you say.

If anyone has any questions, regarding the issue of defamation please PM me and I will do the research to answer your questions if I don't knwo the immediate answer. Mike if you want to discuss this further please let me know.

Roger Davis · #27 23-09-2005, 07:31 AM

Gee they were open SUNDAY? What hours of business do you work?
Not going to argue over this one, but as a one person operation I try to do the best I can. Sometimes you just can't make the post because the phone wont' stop ringing or a customer in the shop is busy kicking tyres and you just can't tell them to rack off so you can do some work. You don't know who the person is in your shop and although it would be nice to trust everyone, you can't afford to. Too many things go walking.
When you look at my office hours Tues-Fri 9-5, Sat 9-12, it doesn't tell you that I get in at 7am and leave usually around 6pm, and it doesn't tell you that the repairs get done on the Monday when I am not supposed to be here (I still won't answer the phone, but I have been known to deal with any customer who walks in [this is not an invitation!]) So I do the best I can and if that offends some people, so be it.

anthony2302749 · #28 23-09-2005, 02:23 PM

I seems to me much has been said on this topic. David I think you are being a little unjust without taking in all the facts. 1. You places the order on a Sunday (the business was closed) 2. The order was made online (Other people would have also places orders online, therefore you would be in a queue) 3. You paid by credit card (the business must get clearance from the bank) 4. Your order is then processed and packaged (remember they have other customers who have ordered online too) 5. The package is posted (becomes the responsibility of Australia Post, and they can be slow delivering mail sometimes).

<FONT color=black><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[img] /><o:p></o:p></FONT></P><P style=[/img]
If it took 4 days to arrive this is still very good and no slow if you purchase the item from O/S. Now, may be if you waited to Monday to place your order you would have had it by Wednesday, one day earlier not much to complain about is it. Finally, if you have a grip with the way someone runs a business you need to talk to them in a courteous manner. This is call customer feedback, and without good feedback how can they improve on their service. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Anthony <o:p></o:p>

ving (David) · #29 23-09-2005, 02:54 PM

if I get anything delivered from anywhere with in a week i'm happy

no bad ones yet!

jdb · #30 23-09-2005, 04:17 PM

rumples is right, not defamation if it is the truth...(liable if in print rr?)

I guess one way you forum admins could deal with this is to have a "Watchdog" consumer advocacy section. (rr would be the ideal moderator for this given his background)

APC (Australian Personal Computer) magazine has a fantastic section where customers inform them of their bad experiences with vendours and the magazine typically give the vendors an opportunity to reply to the complaints.

Gives customers an avenue to vent, keeps vendors honest and on their toes and gives potential customers an idea of who to (or not to) deal with.

I guess you still have to be careful of vexatious claims - but if you get both parties involved then they should become apparent...

Most (if not all) business welcome constructive feedback...who knows, they might not have been aware that they have a problem...you could be doing them a favour!

asimov (John) · #31 23-09-2005, 04:34 PM

Heres my experience with 1 company, whom I won't bother mentioning: 7 mths ago I emailed requesting a price for an item that was on their site..2 weeks later I emailed them again because I received no answer..1 mth later I emailed them, this time to tell them I was not a happy chappy & I will take my business elsewhere etc etc. About 3 mths later I get a reply from someone that works there, & I quote: 'sorry, too busy, hope you find what your looking for'..Naturally I just shook my head in dis-belief & deleted it.

Last night (I kidd you not!) I receive an email from the same retailer, this time the owner...& I quote: 'You could have just rang me asking for a price, rather than throwing a tizzie, signed: amused'

At the time, I was willing to spend a grand on this item I was looking for.

It's safe to say I will NEVER hassle them again!

Striker (Tony) · #32 23-09-2005, 04:39 PM

Well I have a positive just to throw in.

Just picked up my brand new travel mount EQ5 with stainless steel legs....got it from Star Optics on the Gold Coast...excellant people and great service from Lex & Chris.

I payed $450 for this mount where a local well known shop here in Brisbane quoted me $899

How they survive I dont know.

I highly recommend Star Optics.

Starkler (Geoff) · #33 23-09-2005, 07:40 PM

I have another good dealer report.

I ordered some colour filters earlier this week from AOE.
It seems there was a mix up with the courier and I received a rather lengthy explanation and apology from them , all without prompting from myself.
These things happen but to keep ones customers informed is good customer service.

to AOE

anthony2302749 · #34 23-09-2005, 08:05 PM

Yes the EQ5 is a bargain, but do you get good after sale service. The EQ5 mount is not perfect and there is a lot that can be done to improve it, such as re-machined both RA & Dec axes for smoother operation, worm gear reseated, worm end play bearings changed to Teflon (better tracking), grease changed etc. I know one Melbourne business that will.

Also there has been a lot of talk about bad costumer service, as I had mention earlier if you have a grip with the way someone runs a business you need to talk to them in a courteous manner. This is call customer feedback and without good feedback how can they improve on their service.

I have work for a business that retails in astronomical equipment and have experienced the worst a customer can offer, no fault of my own. They are usually rude and abrupt and never armed with the facts. They think they are right and are unwilling to listen to reason (you see this all the time at Cole, Safeway etc) and when you are dealing with a customer like this it is a no win situation.

When dealing with a business or person uses some common sense and be courteous (both of which are lacking in today’s society), it will help make the transaction go smoothly and everyone will be happy.

Anthony

janoskiss (Steve H) · #35 23-09-2005, 08:06 PM

The AOE people (Dan & Raff I dealt with) are amazingly good communicators. They take their time answering as many questions as you have, even if it's about inexpensive products. They answered question after question in numerous correspondences via email when I was looking for a diagonal for well under $100. I thought I was really testing their patience by the third email, but they were just as friendly answering my questions after that.

westsky · #36 23-09-2005, 08:08 PM

I don't know why this thread was resurected after 7 months but he's a couple of answers.
Roger, if the first line of your post was aimed at me then I can tell you that for 20yrs I worked 18 hours a day 7 days a week, so I,m no stranger to being self employed and working long hours I know how tough it is.5 yrs ago I sold my business and still after this long I get calls from previous customers asking me to re-enter the business I was in as they can't get the service I gave them.As a retailer I,m surprised you want to re-start this thread, from a business point of view it's not really a good idea, you don't know who's reading this and maybe someone out there has had an issue with your service over the years.

Anthony, In this day and age paying by credit card is fast, you get instant notification that the charge has gone through, you don't have to wait for clearance from a bank, a phone call or eftpos transaction is all it takes.
as to being courteous, read the above post, pay attention to the reply I got from the retailer, basically he was rude.
Aussie Post did there bit and got the package here within there timeframe.
If you think 4 days from Sydney to Brisbane is good, then what happened this morning?
I recieved a large parcel from Syd that was posted 9.am Yesterday morning, thats right yesterday morning, it arrived at 11am today, now thats great service, and the carrier was good old Aussie Post, Don't worry I rang them to thank them for the exceptional service.

Last week I recieved a phone call from a friend of a friend asking me about a certain digital imager that I use, he is interested in buying one and thought it would be a good idea to talk to a local retailer about the product. he got his questions answered and was almost ready to buy when my friend told him to contact me, it seems the retailer he spoke to told him that he needed to buy a seperate guide scope to be able to use this camera.
So the retailer either does not know his product that he is an agent for or he was just trying to get that little bit extra out of the sale, now having dealings with this retailer before I think that the reason for him saying that he needed to spend more money on a guide scope was plain and simple he doesn't know his product, I can't believe he was trying to rip his customer off, especially as he is a repeat customer of many years.

Strange how just about everybody I know in astronomy buys from overseas why?
because they all have stories about Aussie retailers like this one.

cheers
David.

westsky · #37 23-09-2005, 08:16 PM

Anthony, one question where do you get the idea that the EQ5 Dec and Ra axis have to be re-machined?
in all the years I have owned these mounts ( since they where called the EQ4) I have never once had to machine any part nor have I ever seen this put forward as a fix for these mounts, sure they are not perfect but they are not rubbish either, they can be used for astrophotography if some care is taken with the adjustments that need doing.
cheers
david.

anthony2302749 · #38 23-09-2005, 08:21 PM

David you may want to look a the discussion on improving the EQ5 mount. Take the time to read the information you may understand were I am coming from.

Research the internet you will find the information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by westsky

Anthony, one question where do you get the idea that the EQ5 Dec and Ra axis have to be re-machined?

in all the years I have owned these mounts ( since they where called the EQ4) I have never once had to machine any part nor have I ever seen this put forward as a fix for these mounts, sure they are not perfect but they are not rubbish either, they can be used for astrophotography if some care is taken with the adjustments that need doing.

cheers

david.

janoskiss (Steve H) · #39 23-09-2005, 08:24 PM

Perhaps the "bad service" in the thread title should be replaced by something like "customer service"...? Left around for long enough a search engine will link the phrase "bad service" with all that's been written on this thread, including the posts about dealers who provide good service.

westsky · #40 23-09-2005, 08:41 PM

Anthony, I,m an internet junkie , I know these mounts backwards ( I own three of them ) and I say again that in the 8 years I have been using them there is no mention of having to re-machine any part of them.
I have seen where some people have changed the bearings, used different grease. The grease they use these days is as good as any you can buy so thats one item that doesn't need changing.
Anthony I think you need to do a bit of research yourself before you make blanket statements.

David.