Subtle Difference ES68 v TVPan

[Suzy]

Originally Posted by Profiler

Suzy - why not the XW5mm over the ES? The general impression I get of the XW's is that they are hard to beat below 10mm.

Apologies Profiler for not getting back to you sooner.

I don't see the 5mm getting a whole lot of use. It gives me 240x mag.- bit too much for regular use on my scope which has a 1200 f/length. My XW7 (170x mag.) covers the high power end nicely, but that being said, the XW10 is the one that gets the big work out.

Regarding your comments of the XW's being hard to beat below 10mm- I've come across those comments a lot for sure. The XW10 being the most popular (not because of any deficiencies, but because it's the most used in the range under 10mm).
OPT are selling the XW's at the moment for $359 plus $50 shipping brings it to $410 *cough cough*. But! If I came across a second hand one for $200 I would jump on it.
Hard to believe at the time when I bought my XW7 last year, they were selling in Australia for $730 (just the XW7), yet I was able to get it for $300 from OPT when the dollar was good. Huge price gap isn't it!

I agree completely with your last line:

It is typically always better to take your time to save for a high quality EP than hunt around for compromises.

That's exactly what I told myself when I first started buying eyepieces. One can tend to waste a lot of money trying to find a good eyepiece. If I had the spare $410 I would jump on the XW5 for sure, but a recent $700 purchase of kitting out my dob with a go-to has used up my astro brownie points grrrr.

For the last 12 months I've sat back & waited on the responses of the ES before I made any decisions, so it's a purchase I'm not making lightly. But, at that high end of magnification, I'm prepared to make some small sacrifices- but then again I'm terribly fussy with quality. I can still barlow down my XW10 to a 5mm, which I do sometimes, but I hate fiddling changing 2" adapters to accommodate 2" barlow in the dark and I don't care what anybody says, having all that extra glass on top of all that extra glass in widefields has GOT to do something in light loss. The only person I'd believe if they said that wasn't the case is John Bambury or the like.
A Nagler 5mm will never enter my mind as it's only got 12mm of eye relief. Fine for some, just not for me. I remember all too well having to struggle with 10mm ER with plossls that came with my scope.. Bit off topic, but was using Ron's 17mm 2" Nagler and it was noiiiiiice! Good eye relief too.

If I'm not happy with the ES, I will look at it as only my second "failed" eyepiece purchase- a lesson I think I'm prepared to take the $100 gamble with. The other ep I'm talking about I only spent $50 on- performed tragically in my scope- for that price and it was Meade, I thought what the heck so I bought it. So I'm not doing too bad so far.
Haven't made up my mind fully yet- the reflection problem with the ES4.7 has me thinking still, tho not ruled it out entirely.

Perhaps I should put up a "wanted" ad. for an XW5. But then how often does one come across second hand XW for sale. No one seems to want to part with them.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Suzy

A Nagler 5mm will never enter my mind as it's only got 12mm of eye relief.

Hi Suzy, the shorter focal length ES 82's have similar useable eye relief to the Nagler T6's. The manufacturer's stated eye relief figures are exaggerated and the 4.7 is reported to be tighter than the 6.7. I have the 6.7 and need to fold the eyecup down to take in most of the view, though it's reasonably comfortable to use that way.

The on-axis performance of the longer focal length ES eyepieces is on par with Televue but I haven't had a chance to properly compare the 6.7 and 11 yet.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Hi Suzy

No problem at all - I am sadly a refractolic and didn't realise what FL and scope you were meaning. I think B&H photos have the XWs on special at the momment so might be worth a look.

[Suzy]

Originally Posted by casstony

Hi Suzy, the shorter focal length ES 82's have similar useable eye relief to the Nagler T6's. The manufacturer's stated eye relief figures are exaggerated and the 4.7 is reported to be tighter than the 6.7. I have the 6.7 and need to fold the eyecup down to take in most of the view, though it's reasonably comfortable to use that way.

The on-axis performance of the longer focal length ES eyepieces is on par with Televue but I haven't had a chance to properly compare the 6.7 and 11 yet.

Oh!
Hi Tony, you've been a big help, many thanks for that.
Oh boy, this is turning into a nightmare! The ES4.7mm is supposed to have 15mm of eye relief, having an ep already with that same amount ER I find that I really don't want to go any shorter.
Just a reminder to people that this is a personal choice regarding comfort level and a factor if one wears glasses.
Unless I get to try one in the meantime, I think I'll be giving this a miss and re-look at the Baader which was my second choice.

I am sadly a refractolic and didn't realise what FL and scope you were meaning.

Profiler: no problem at all. It does get confusing!
Thanks for the link to B&H Photos (I hadn't heard of them before), I went & had a look but they don't seem to do XWs shorter than 10mm. But what a great price on them! $279.96 for the XW10mm converted to au that's $270)- that's fantastic! I've no clue on the shipping costs though.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Hi Suzy

It only takes a few minutes to write an email to find out whether they can get other FLs for you and at what their prices might be. With respect to shipping costs I seem to recall reading another thread of someone mentioning something like $30 for shipping when they purchased from them recently - however, I don't think that figure was UPS but once again it can't hurt to ask and be certain.

[MattT]

Hi Suzy,
Astronomics have XW's for $325 or so and if you are on cloudy nights they do an unspecified discount postage is around $30 or so I think could be worth it? I did get the 5mm Hyperion with extra spacing rings and it's ok easy to look through but probably not close to the XW's in views...but only really used it once in the last few months.
Matt

[Suzy]

Good point Profiler, I will ask them if they sell the XW5mm, thanks.
No doubt the XW's are a great price but $100 over budget at $300. Hmmm... I'll have a good think on it- very tempting. At this point a cost like that will have to wait a bit- just hope they're still that price in a couple of months.

Matt, thank you- good to know.
I get this funny feeling I'll end up doing yet another XW.
What the heck, I don't really need steak for the next 2 months do I.

[Suzy]

Originally Posted by brian nordstrom

You might be right there Profiler , there is something about this combo that works ...
Brian.

I only get eyepieces with these coatings
The XWs & LVWs have lanthanum, while my Denkenmier has the flourite.

[Suzy]

Well, I bit the bullet a few days ago and ordered the XW5. Adoroma in the U.S. had it on special for only $280 and our dollar is doing well so the conversion works out to only $267 at the moment. Shipping was an extra $60, but that still brings it in at a cheap $330. I've just checked OPT and they still have them at $360 plus shipping.

A couple of months ago I bought the Baader Hyperion 5mm. It behaved shockingly in my fast scope- very annoying and distracting vignetting, rendering the fov much much less than the 65 (or 68 I forget) degrees. I took it back. So now that I've procrastinated so long on what 5mm ep to get, I could finally afford my XW so it all worked in my favor.

Someone posted links as to where in the U.S. to buy XWs from (I only knew of Woodlands and OPT) and that's how I came to know about Adorama. I tried finding the thread to thank that person but alas I couldn't find it. So whoever you are- a big thank you!

[MattT]

Well done Suzy! You know whats next...the 3.5XW

[Suzy]

That's not funny!

no no no really it isn't
Why am I still laughing

...and I'm foolishly telling myself my kit is done. Is it ever "done". I've lost count of how many times I've told myself that.

Anything under a 5mm, I'm happy to barlow. If I was lucky enough to use that focal length say three times a year, it would cost me $110 a pop .

[bytor666]

Good call on the XW Suzy! I was also considering a 5mm XW, but the price held me back as well. I eventually found a 5.2mm Pentax XL, which I use on Jupiter and small globs / planetary nebs. I had also tried the 6.7mm and 4.7mm ES eyepieces which I drift timed. The 6.7mm ES 82 is actually a 7mm EP and the 4.7mm ES 82 is actually a 5mm EP. Some will say that is splitting hairs, but it's not:

1200/5= 240x
1200/4.7=255x

1200/6.7=179x
1200/7=171x

The difference isn't huge but is is there. I found the eye relief to be too short on the ES eyepieces in the 6.7mm and 4.7mm focal lengths, so I grabbed a 5.2mm Pentax XL and the difference in relief is quite large. The quality in the glass of the Pentax XL's are much better than the ES eyepieces as well, but not a huge difference when viewing at the eyepieces. The ES 6.7mm and 4.7mm showed nice tight stars on axis and close to the edges, but the eye relief for me was just too short.

I have also owned a 28mm and 20mm Meade Series 5000 SWA which are excellent performers in fast scopes, (mine is a 10" F/4.7 Skywatcher Reflector), and these eyepieces are probably the same as the ES 68 degree eyepieces. (The guy at ES used to work at Meade....so IMHO, I think the Meade Series 5000 designs are pretty close to the ES designs).

Cheers,

[Don Pensack]

A note: Current versions of the Explore Scientific 68 degree eyepieces have 6 elements in 4 groups. It states this on the ES site, and I can verify it. Purging gas has also changed on the very latest arrivals from nitrogen to Argon.

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by bytor666

(The guy at ES used to work at Meade....so IMHO, I think the Meade Series 5000 designs are pretty close to the ES designs)

And the ES designs are remarkably similar to Televue (so similar that the absence of a law suit is somewhat surprising, from what I've been told).

[Don Pensack]

Jing Hua Optical (JOC) is the maker of the older Meade Series 5000 and Celestron Axiom LX eyepieces. For over a year, the Series 5000 and the Celestrons have been from another company.
JOC owns Explore Scientific.
It is likely the ES68s are similar to the TeleVue Panoptics, though not identical.
Scott Roberts, the manager of ES, used to work at Meade many years ago, and he was at Meade for many years when meade was sourcing from JOC.
Meade and Celestron now source from another company in China.