The 2012 Hoaxes

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

I find it amazing that people like this are allowed to vote and procreate.

Churchill said much the same thing.

I'm selling insurance for pets at the moment - for $10,000 I'll come and pick up your pets and look after them for the rest of their lives after you die

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

Just like Y2K, hey? Nothin' happened!

The difference being there was truth in Y2K having the potential to cause computer grief.

We had to start making provision for it by 1985 so that files we legally had to retain for 14 years didn't get deleted by expiry dates wrapping to 1900 and getting automatically cleaned up.

Nothing significant happened because lots of attention had been applied to the potential problems.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

That's nice.

But I don't consider my friends 10yr old son "stupid" for getting worried about what he saw on YouTube. Kids his age tend to believe anything they see on the Internet. The fact that he rang me up to ask if it was true, to me is a sign of his intelligence.

I'm guessing you don't do much Astronomy Outreach.
I'm fortunate enough to be able to do so on quite a large scale. I get a lot of personal satisfaction from doing it.
This year there are going to be more and more people looking for the truth behind these hoaxes.
I find that people are more willing to ask questions if you don't make them feel that they are stupid for asking them.

I totally agree JJ.

It is quite negative of Jason and Dino to have that attitude.

As I am the contact 'by phone' for the SVAA I get quite a few calls about 'end-of-times' reports that the irresponsible media and conspiracy groups scare people with.
I believe it is very responsible of misled people to call someone to double check instead of running around telling everyone else that the world is going to blow up.
I was quite happy that the 8 year old's dad cared enough about his son to check, and put his very scared son at ease.

I don't mind the approx 50 calls I get every time the story goes around that Mars will appear as big as the Moon.
I don't mind when I get calls and visitors asking if the Asteroid is really going to hit the Earth.

They are great opportunites to Outreach Astronomy.
It also shows that people want to know about 'out there'.

Stupid? No, they are the smart ones.
It would be nice if far more people would question these false predictions. Then the Predictors may have to be more accountable for their claims. Not just blindly believed by the masses.

[koputai (Jason)]

Children, fair enough, but any adult that hears stories about the world ending on a particular date who doesn't dismiss it out of hand, is a sandwich short of a picnic.

Physical phenomena like the apparent size of objects, these are fair game, and non-scientific people wanting more info is fine, to be encouraged even, but once again, end of the world stories, see above.

Cheers,
Jason.

[desler]

I keep telling my kids, the only stupid question is the one not asked!

It's how I learnt, I kept asking.......
These doom day things will come and go, just like pyramad money making scams. Also, the Nigerian lotto comes to mind, will go on and on.

Why? because the people that need to ask questions are too frightened!

I'd be still trying to take digital quickies through a 4 inch camera store reflector if I hadn't asked questions. The truth really is out there! If only you'd bothered to ask!

My 2 cents worth from an overworked and very tired mind!

Daz

[bartman (Bart)]

Originally Posted by jenchris

Churchill said much the same thing.

I'm selling insurance for pets at the moment - for $10,000 I'll come and pick up your pets and look after them for the rest of their lives after you die

Chris, do you need somebody to help with the waste disposal side of things?
I can help there.... for a cut that is.....

Bartman

[Vartigy]

Or you could turn the issue on a flipside to all the doomsayers.

Well. Being in Aus, we'll be one of the first few countries to fade into existence. I'd hate to be the US as they'll have to watch us burn on TV 12 hours behind and sit there twiddling their thumbs in anticipation of their burning.

I mean... that's how time works doesn't it?

[John0z (John)]

You know, it is hard for the average person to know what is going to happen tomorrow, let alone in 11 months time. One day, it is smooth sailing, and the next - have to evacuate because the ship is sinking. Most people now are just having enough trouble surviving. Ok - I am digressing.

What I want to say is that there are people who have time on their hands. If they get it into their heads that something is going to happen, it is very hard to convince them otherwise. There are others who will believe it so much that they will try to make it happen, i.e. the world is going to end anyway, so why do they go to work... Extremist groups might even help it along, i.e. fighting, warfare - and then there is the other side who will use this to their advantage, often criminal elements.

I remember a part in a movie where these guys had to fly to an asteroid, drill some holes and blow it up with nuclear weapons - one particular guy borrowed a lot of money to blow it on a night with the girls - imagine his disappointment when he finds out that he gets to come back and have to pay all that money back!

[FlashDrive (Poppy)]

Originally Posted by anfo

they'll have to watch us burn on TV 12 hours behind and sit there twiddling their thumbs in anticipation of their burning.

I mean... that's how time works doesn't it?

Burn ...????? ... Where did you get that idea from ..... Is that how we're all going out ....is it ...????

What makes you say we're gonna " burn "
Do you know something the rest of us don't .. ?? .

Oh .. pray tell us would you ...

Flash

[AstralTraveller (David)]

I agree with the thrust of what Jeanette and Ken said but I've found that sometime you just have to cut your losses. Sometimes it's because the person is a lost cause but mostly just because they want to dominate your time while others are getting impatient and walking away. It's especially disappointing when it's kid walking away dissatisfied.

I think my least favourite is the 'how much does that cost' or 'what should I buy' when I have twigged that they will never actually buy a scope or get into the hobby. Too often I've told people that you can get a decent scope for $300-400 only for them to reply to the effect 'that much?' or 'wow, I didn't know it was that expensive'. I feel like telling them to take up golf.

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

I'm not interested in trying to convert the nutters. I make that quite clear in my profile where I stand and who I will respond to. No trolls or time wasters thanks.
I only deal with people who show a genuine interest in learning the truth behind such things.

[Baddad (Marty)]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

I'm not interested in trying to convert the nutters.

Hi jjj,
Conversely the nutters are often trying to convert you.
They want your respect. They try to appear "all-knowing" and gain control.
Afflicted with self denial they are blinded in the march to their goal.

They do not learn from failed attempts. Failure just makes them drive harder. It is sad. We simply need to accept it and move on. Enjoy our past time.

Cheers

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Originally Posted by Baddad

Hi jjj,
Conversely the nutters are often trying to convert you.
They want your respect. They try to appear "all-knowing" and gain control.

They can spout all the pseudo science they like.
LOL they have buckleys chance.

[Baddad (Marty)]

The following was in a documentary on Foxtell recently.
Reversal of the Earth's magnetic field became the subject.
I apologise for the lack of accurate detail. I think they mentioned that polar reversal occurred about every 200,000 years. (Other sources say 100,000 to 50 million years and 50,000 years had been recorded.)

The issue was that when reversal did occur the protective shield would be severely compromised. All life would be threatened and blasted by radiation. Mass extinctions would result.

The last time it happened is long enough to it being due now.
The affects of geomagnetic reversal that the doco explains is not consistant with info from other sources.
In the documentary it suggested doom and gloom and that the transtion was rapid. Yet other info is very different.

Perhaps its a lead up to 21/12/12
It is misleading to the audience. It promotes the sensationalism that these "friends" of jjj are trying to sponsor.

I think the title of the doco is "How The Earth Was Formed".
Much of the explanations were over-dramatized but interesting.

(Oops, apologies to jjj- Re 'friends'. It was intended as sarcasm)

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

Well I think that laying a bet with them would be a good idea - it's a win win - if the end of the world comes, they win and you pay nothing -
if it doesn't, you win and receive the tote.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Yes Marty, it's very unfortunate when a 'documentary' contains such gross errors. I think docos are overwhelmingly accurate and so it would be easy for errors like this to be believed, even by people who think rather than blindly accept. I've been caught out before now, normally much to my embarrassment.

In this case the British Geological Survey says: Is there any danger to life? Almost certainly not.

BTW Although the science in docos is generally good I sometimes grin at the portrayal of how science is conducted. For example, Dr TV Archaeologist drops off a piece of bone for carbon dating and returns the next afternoon to get the result. Not physically possible! But receiving an email three months later just doesn't make a good show. Also, all material is able to be dated and all dates make sense. In your dreams.

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Baddad

They do not learn from failed attempts. Failure just makes them drive harder. It is sad. We simply need to accept it and move on. Enjoy our past time.

Last night on SBS they repeated "Judgement Day: Intelligent Design On Trial Ep2". At the end ID apologists were still saying Darwin and evolution were wrong, and some had sent death threats to the judge who ruled against them.

How to the sane move on when the nutters are threatening violence?

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by Baddad

The following was in a documentary on Foxtell recently.
Reversal of the Earth's magnetic field became the subject.
I apologise for the lack of accurate detail. I think they mentioned that polar reversal occurred about every 200,000 years. (Other sources say 100,000 to 50 million years and 50,000 years had been recorded.)

The issue was that when reversal did occur the protective shield would be severely compromised. All life would be threatened and blasted by radiation. Mass extinctions would result.

The last time it happened is long enough to it being due now.
The affects of geomagnetic reversal that the doco explains is not consistant with info from other sources.
In the documentary it suggested doom and gloom and that the transtion was rapid. Yet other info is very different.

Perhaps its a lead up to 21/12/12
It is misleading to the audience. It promotes the sensationalism that these "friends" of jjj are trying to sponsor.

I think the title of the doco is "How The Earth Was Formed".
Much of the explanations were over-dramatized but interesting.

(Oops, apologies to jjj- Re 'friends'. It was intended as sarcasm)

I'm not too sure about the geomagnetic reversal bit (I know the Sun does it), but I have never doubted that Earth has had a Polar Shift a gazillion years ago. At least there is reliable evidence of that

I looked at some Conspiracy websites last night. I needed a good laugh

[renormalised (Carl)]

Yep Ken, the Earth's magnetic fields do shift.....the period of the shifts isn't a set number of years, but there appears to be, from the rock records, a series of shifts which occur....some on a 50000-75000 year timescale, others on timescales up to a million years in length (but usually around 675000-750000 years). Our atmosphere is more than thick enough to protect the life on the surface of the planet, but I wouldn't be too happy for electronics and the electricity grid. Navigation would be a problem especially when you can have up to a dozen or more weak magnetic poles present when the field is down to the minimum. Travel to space, unless you had good shielding, would be hazardous and satellites would be in trouble. Could even be some climate changes occurring (increase in aerosols and such due to more radiation being allowed to enter the upper atmosphere, changes in condensation nuclei size, shape, composition and longevity etc etc etc) because of the flip, but nothing that would mean imminent disaster.

[John0z (John)]

Regarding pole reversal, there are lots of numbers involved and it can be difficult to determine what the numbers actually mean. For instance, http://earthsci.org/education/teache...ec/platec.html this article on plate tectonics also talks about paleomagnetism, then further down under Sea Floor Spreading there is a diagram that shows that the current magnetic polarity has been like this for 300,000 years and the last time it was the opposite occurred 750,000 years ago - but stayed like that for 350,000 years. So if we look at 2.3 million years and take the number of polarity shifts in that time, we can come up with an average of around 300,000 years give or take. If our current polarity has been like this for 300,000 years - it just means that a reversal in the future is very likely. Current evidence suggests that this reversal is very unlikely to occur on a particular day, but more likely over a period of hundreds or thousands of years.

Now, what is more interesting is this article from ASNSW http://www.asnsw.com/universe/altern...olarissima.asp that suggests that gamma ray bursts from Polarissima Australis in Octans coincides with our magnetic polarity reversals.

Most people say that magnetic pole reversal should not affect life as we know it, but what about the side effects?