Australia's final pitch for the Square Kilometer Array (SKA)

[iceman (Mike)]

Interesting insight Martin, thanks!

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by MLyons

Hmmmm....some interesting opinions on South Africa.
Don't believe everything you read in the papers or get fed by your local TV news service........or even the hearsay from expats' brothers' nephews' aunt..........

Fact is that we already have Meerkat, a scaled down version of SKA which is a significant project in its own right.
This was implemented as a direct indicator of our ability and commitment.

Believe it or not, if you consult the "futurist" intellectuals and academics, their outlook is that the African political and economical workings are a known quantity and can be forecast with some certainty (so one can plan and work around the challenges) whereas the forecast on the Australian stability both economic and political cannot be forecast with any certainty as, believe it or not, they consider it on the brink of a turnaround of sorts due to the influence of the Eastern block. (I was gobsmacked when it was explained to me by a group of very highly regarded futurists)

These "futurists" are an integral part of the selection process because their field of expertise and study can provide significant insight into the perceived long term stability and sustainability of such a project.

Anyways, the conditions here in South Africa, while different, is nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe.

May the best team win.

Martin

How long have these futurists been in business and what is their track record? I remember a time when people used to trust economists.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Quite true Martin, I have seen many presentation for the South African bid and they are quite well presented. Both nations have similar projects underway and the amount of costs injected into the system I feel it is going to be quite tight.

I think it would be in the best interest to go multinational on this one as the ultimate goal is Long Base Interferometry and you can image the length of the system if both South Africa and Australia/New Zealand would combine to produce. The other advantage of a combined system is the curvature of the earth and the ability to point separated systems in opposite direction at the same time.

Would even be nice if somewhere in South America would be involved but I don't know the circumstances why they did not put in the bid.

Whatever happens we will know soon.

Originally Posted by MLyons

Hmmmm....some interesting opinions on South Africa.
Don't believe everything you read in the papers or get fed by your local TV news service........or even the hearsay from expats' brothers' nephews' aunt..........

Fact is that we already have Meerkat, a scaled down version of SKA which is a significant project in its own right.
This was implemented as a direct indicator of our ability and commitment.

Believe it or not, if you consult the "futurist" intellectuals and academics, their outlook is that the African political and economical workings are a known quantity and can be forecast with some certainty (so one can plan and work around the challenges) whereas the forecast on the Australian stability both economic and political cannot be forecast with any certainty as, believe it or not, they consider it on the brink of a turnaround of sorts due to the influence of the Eastern block. (I was gobsmacked when it was explained to me by a group of very highly regarded futurists)

These "futurists" are an integral part of the selection process because their field of expertise and study can provide significant insight into the perceived long term stability and sustainability of such a project.

Anyways, the conditions here in South Africa, while different, is nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe.

May the best team win.

Martin

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

While I do hope Australia gets the nod, Africa in general is rising quickly...

My company has a couple of projects in Africa and while it is not all beer and skittles in the operation yet, we've been able to replicate our efforts in Japan with little difference in quality (after getting everyone trained up). relatedly the cost of labour in most of Africa is less than that of China (we are closing a plant in China and shifting more work to Africa).

[TrevorW]

My daughter just returned from a trip to Kenya staying with a very nice Kenyan family in Nairobi, she loved the trip but was glad to be back

No guarantee of a daily shower
Sanitation dodgy
Electricity was continually interupted
The family she stayed with lived in a gated and guarded complex Although not well off they even had a servant
Roads were atrocious and road rules virtually non existent.
ATM machines were guarded.

Moving from one country to the next for cheap labour is the norm for multinational corporations, they have little compunction in putting people out of work in one country if they can get labour cheaper in another as the standard of living and cost of labour goes up in the former.

I wonder what will happen when they have nowhere else to go ??

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by MLyons

Hmmmm....some interesting opinions on South Africa.
Don't believe everything you read in the papers or get fed by your local TV news service........or even the hearsay from expats' brothers' nephews' aunt..........

Fact is that we already have Meerkat, a scaled down version of SKA which is a significant project in its own right.
This was implemented as a direct indicator of our ability and commitment.

Believe it or not, if you consult the "futurist" intellectuals and academics, their outlook is that the African political and economical workings are a known quantity and can be forecast with some certainty (so one can plan and work around the challenges) whereas the forecast on the Australian stability both economic and political cannot be forecast with any certainty as, believe it or not, they consider it on the brink of a turnaround of sorts due to the influence of the Eastern block. (I was gobsmacked when it was explained to me by a group of very highly regarded futurists)

These "futurists" are an integral part of the selection process because their field of expertise and study can provide significant insight into the perceived long term stability and sustainability of such a project.

Anyways, the conditions here in South Africa, while different, is nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe.

May the best team win.

Martin

Well said Martin.

It seems to me that Australia is truly a victim of its own success. All economies fall, no matter how good they are, as we have mostly incompetent governments who are there for their own ideological and personal gains and ruin the country in the process. I truly fear that our country will end up a much poorer nation and will just be like the vest of the world! What do we have once the minerals have gone? In this respect, it shouldn't really worry me, as I am at the end of my life anyway, but it does. I have children, after all.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by rainwatcher

Still we have our own basket cases here – how much carbon tax will they pay ? none I suppose only the working class have to pay that. Hope they don’t need water for their cooling and if they do they better avoid Victoria.
As a government we are actually less stable than SA, they are as stable as any one party so called Democracy can be. Whereas we, well why go on its not going to change anything.
Good luck to the team.
Peter

^^^ Does it need to be pointed out how ill-informed this comment is..?

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

^^^ Does it need to be pointed out how ill-informed this comment is..?

Nah

[JuniorAstro (Jason)]

To be totally honest, I hope South Africa get it, my opinion is probably going to be biased because I'm born in Johannesburg, South Africa but I think RSA have such amazing potential and since the Apartied has ended they have been looking for ways to prove that there is development within the younger white AND black people and I think if they get this they can be given that chance. It will also be good if they get it because than with the worlds attention partly on South Africa it will help weed out some of the corruption and violence because they will be forced to abbied with the rules that other countries are following.

Best of luck to Australia as well though!

[clive milne]

I just hope the choice is made on the basis of which location will return the best science.

~c

[rainwatcher (Peter)]

A number or correrspondents have mentioned the end of aparthied as if this fixes all. It does not, racisim is still rife in SA government policy. How else to explain their continued support of the vile and racist Mugabe regime. Off with the rose coloured glasses please.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by JuniorAstro

To be totally honest, I hope South Africa get it, my opinion is probably going to be biased because I'm born in Johannesburg, South Africa but I think RSA have such amazing potential and since the Apartied has ended they have been looking for ways to prove that there is development within the younger white AND black people and I think if they get this they can be given that chance. It will also be good if they get it because than with the worlds attention partly on South Africa it will help weed out some of the corruption and violence because they will be forced to abbied with the rules that other countries are following.

Best of luck to Australia as well though!

Governments, abide by the rules? Since when does anyone follow the rules? If they don't like them, they change them. They will all get away with what they can! Politics is a perverse corruption anyway. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, it is said. Unfortunately, we have far too many examples of this.

[JuniorAstro (Jason)]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

Governments, abide by the rules? Since when does anyone follow the rules? If they don't like them, they change them. They will all get away with what they can! Politics is a perverse corruption anyway. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, it is said. Unfortunately, we have far too many examples of this.

America will look for a scape goat to draw the worlds attention away from their problems, if they find south africa an easy target it will force them to sort out some corruption or the worlds media will be hounding at there door, personally I don't want this to happen but it will help stop some crime if people know they actually might be caught. Take the football world cup for example, the extra security really did help slow down the crime, this might do the same.

Sorry for drifting out of topic though! You made a good point Stardrifter.


-Jason