I hate Apple

[stephenb (Stephen)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

That's right girlfriend, join the club.

Try typing "Tool" (one of the biggest rock bands in the US) into iTunes search and you get pictures of..........a hammer

I tried bying a Powderfinger album once (OZ iTunes), "not available" , . Got it via google".........free, in 30 seconds flat

I typed "tool" into my iTunes search and didn't get any hammers - got plenty of bands/song titles/album names/apps/podcasts etc, with the word "tool" in them (as I would expect!) Not sure what you're doing to get a picture of a hammer? Sure you're not still stuck in Google?

As Chris has stated, Tool and their management refuse(d) to sign to iTunes - not iTunes fault.

Windows on an iPad? Will never happen. In the history of technology consumers have never had so much choice when it comes to non-essential gadgets, yet we as an individual, must whine when things don't do exactly, precisely what we want them to do. I've never had an issue with any Apple product that has been life threatening, jepardised my capacity to get through the day or threatened to bring down society.

[Octane (Humayun)]

I listen to some pretty bizarre out there stuff that not many have heard of, and, it's all there, in iTunes. Yikes.

H

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by Poita

You don't want Win7 on an iPad. Seriously the form factor of a Tablet doesn't work well with an OS and apps not designed from the ground up f

See, thats annoying, I had to delet most of yr message so I could add a reply (I'm doing this on an iPad) long quotes don't allow room for a reply

Anyway, ok, ok I get it, I didn't mean win 7 as is. I mean a tablet friendly win 7 from the ground up, with Apple-type magic to make it work properly.

It's funny, I went to buy my daughter a tiny cheapy net book (around $300) for when she travels around Europe from Harris tech . She loves my iPad, but wants to use PS regularly so it had to have win 7. Harris tech said "we don't have any, no one wants that **** anymore, tablets are the way to go.....man" and then pointed to a $3000 tablet that ran win 7. I quietly pointed out that the 10 times price for the same functions might be a problem , went down the road to office works (owned by the same company BTW) and got the net book there. Loaded CS5, absolutely worked a treat, and now my daughter doesn't go near my $1000 iPad.

The netbook has win 7, CS5, a 10 hr battery, wi fi etc, AND A USB SOCKET, runs flash,Facebook etc all the things she needs, for a third of the price of an IPad !, and for her, does far more than an IPad.

Despite the fact that I prefer the iPad over a netbook, simply for the interface alone, for simple day to day surfing and emails, Apple has a LONG way to go before it comes CLOSE to the functionality of a netbook with win 7.

[Octane (Humayun)]

You're missing the point.

The iPad is /not/ a netbook replacement. It was never touted as one.

It's sort of half-way between a mobile phone and a computer.

If you want a laptop, get a laptop. Or a MacBook Air, or MacBook, or MacBook Pro.

H

[Hagar (Doug)]

Another bashhing thread. Great stuff guy's. Fred to the red corner and Chris to the blue. In fact Apple to the blue, or is it Chris or is it apple. No matter campaigners to their respective corners. What happens when the two of them start to use fuzzy logic in their programing. Both will just fight with each other and the campaigners will be out of a job.
Both bits of crap that pretty well do what they like, just a differing company protocol to extract money from our pockets and both good at it.

I do have to agree with you though Fred. Apple are way to restrictive in what they allow you to run and use and buy band the way it is used etc, etc. I own an Ipad and an IPhone but doubt I will buy another when either of these give up the ghost. Sorry Chris but PC base is just so much open and usable for what I use a computer for. I can even change the batteries myself.

[irwjager (Ivo)]

Apple, has played a big role in 'commodifying' computing in various forms.

That said, as a MacOSX and iOS developer (who refuses to drink the kool aid), I hate Apple with a passion. The restrictions and hoops you have to jump through just to publish an app on iOS is enough to make a grown man cry. iOS is completely walled garden and everything you (may) do is controlled and locked down. Innovation is therefore greatly stifled, but if you manage to come up with something new and novel, Apple reserves the right to copy you and boot your app out of the store.

Of course, you can forget about developing for iOS if you don't have a Mac.

Not to mention the absurd patent war that is currently going on, which Apple instigated - consumers will be paying the price for that.

Not too much love for Apple from me... (though I make my living writing apps for clients who want an iOS presence).

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Hagar

I can even change the batteries myself.

The one thing I've and, I presume you, have never needed - ever - to change on an iPad. Why would they provide a replaceable battery when one isn't needed? All the extra cradle/lock mechanism does is take up room - resulting in your bog-standard thick and heavy Android cheapie.

I sympathise with you though Doug - if you need the functionality of a Windows machine then stay with them. I can't see the point of stating that an iPad doesn't cut it in comparison, because it was never intended to compete feature for feature. As a pure surfing/contend-absorbing lithe internet athlete the iPad absolutely excels. I run a MacBook Air as well as my iPad - because I do, on occasion need more power. Doesn't diminish my iPad's role in my house though.

On the old chestnut - these perceived restrictions. Ivo - my company also develops apps for both the iOS and Android platforms. I respect what Apple are trying to do here - deliver and maintain a consistently-reliable user experience. This is is ultra-important to Apple - they made their name on user simplicity. Your applications and self are put through the App Store ringer for very good and valid reasons. I don't believe that their practises stifle creativity - take a look at music apps on both platforms. Android hasn't even reached the stage where universal and compliant MIDI control is available yet. iOS has had it for ages. Horses for courses. These two giants (iOS and Android) will leap-frog each other for decades - and to our mutual benefit!

Patent war? It isn't Apple's sole domain - so don't make out that it is. Apple developed a USABLE multi-touch interface and brought it to market first. They spend squillions on getting it there. If I were them and went through the pain to achieve it, I'd be pretty pi$$ed that some other company (that was MEANT to be in partnership) came along and blatantly copied the concept. Multitouch isn't an original Apple concept, but they developed it to the point where it was usable. Give them some credit.

Jeez I'm hopeless - I knew this would happen.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by Octane

You're missing the point.

The iPad is /not/ a netbook replacement. It was never touted as one.

It's sort of half-way between a mobile phone and a computer.

If you want a laptop, get a laptop. Or a MacBook Air, or MacBook, or MacBook Pro.

H

No, your missing the point H. A netbook is not a laptop, The size factor between a net book and iPad is getting dam close. An iPad type interface with the functionality/compatibilty of win 7 would be a killer. Win 7 is not hard to use on a netbook at all.

The "half way" deal of an iPad will be short lived.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

One thing that I would have to pick there Chris.

"As a pure surfing/content absorbing etc etc device"

I run across too many websites that contain flash, which for whatever reasons good or bad, apple has decided is verboten on iPhones and iPads etc to buy another one, I am typing this on my ipad2. I think it is a very good device however the arrogance of deciding that portions of the Internet which use a well established and common thing like flash will be off limits to me means that unless they change that mindset, when it is up for replacement it will be my last as I will buy a device which supports the functionality I want it to.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by The_bluester

One thing that I would have to pick there Chris.

"As a pure surfing/content absorbing etc etc device"

I run across too many websites that contain flash, which for whatever reasons good or bad, apple has decided is verboten on iPhones and iPads etc to buy another one, I am typing this on my ipad2. I think it is a very good device however the arrogance of deciding that portions of the Internet which use a well established and common thing like flash will be off limits to me means that unless they change that mindset, when it is up for replacement it will be my last as I will buy a device which supports the functionality I want it to.

Paul - Adobe have dropped Flash support altogether, as well as future development for ALL mobile devices, and are taking up the Apple lead and going down the HTML5 path instead. They have realised that there are too many inherent problems with Flash on all mobile systems (yes, Android included) - as Jobs pointed out to them some time back. in saying that - your problem is suddenly not a problem any more, but an advantage. Websites will soon either accommodate both Flash and HTML5 content in parallel, or they'll lose hits.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

No, your missing the point H. A netbook is not a laptop, The size factor between a net book and iPad is getting dam close. An iPad type interface with the functionality/compatibilty of win 7 would be a killer. Win 7 is not hard to use on a netbook at all.

The "half way" deal of an iPad will be short lived.

You have that already in the Android-based net-ultra-wibbly-wobbly-something-books that Acer are producing right now - the Transformer Prime. Well, until they won't be able to call it that any more. Don't know why, but Taiwanese/Chinese manufacturers seem to have little regard for copyright and branding.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

That may well be so, but they have left their users in limbo with pretty little "install flash player to view this content" messages all over the internet for years as a result.

While flash is common, if the continue to not even allow it to be developed for their devices, I will buy a different device next time. Within reason a tablet is a tablet is a tablet and while I do like my iPad I am no slave to apple so next time it will have to support it or go west.

I also have a heap of media on m y home network but have to jump through silly hoops to get it on the device, and stopping me from getting iTunes brought music (brought on a mobile) off it to back it up or play it on other (non apple) devices is very close to third line forcing IMO.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

No, your missing the point H. A netbook is not a laptop, The size factor between a net book and iPad is getting dam close. An iPad type interface with the functionality/compatibilty of win 7 would be a killer. Win 7 is not hard to use on a netbook at all.

The "half way" deal of an iPad will be short lived.

I enjoy reading with my iPad in bed or lounging around on my favourite reading chair. Anything that has to be placed on a flat surface to work - like a note/netbook of any kind, where you have to type downwards onto a flat keyboard, simply won't...uhmmm... work. I'd use my little MacBook Air if it did. It doesn't. You know that Fred.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

The one thing I've and, I presume you, have never needed - ever - to change on an ipad

Oh really, well lucky you . I had to replace a battery on an iPhone, guess what happens when you walk into an Apple store and ask for a spare battery
, your treated like a complete nana, "oh no, you can't have that, are you stupid even asking?" Only Apple

I got one on the net natch, no problem. Pity Apple cant be bothered with even that level of support.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by The_bluester

That may well be so, but they have left their users in limbo with pretty little "install flash player to view this content" messages all over the internet for years as a result.

While flash is common, if the continue to not even allow it to be developed for their devices, I will buy a different device next time. Within reason a tablet is a tablet is a tablet and while I do like my iPad I am no slave to apple so next time it will have to support it or go west.

I also have a heap of media on m y home network but have to jump through silly hoops to get it on the device, and stopping me from getting iTunes brought music (brought on a mobile) off it to back it up or play it on other (non apple) devices is very close to third line forcing IMO.

I'll reiterate. Flash won't be supported by Adobe itself any more. There will be no Flash on websites one day soon. Hopefully sooner than later. Your point about holding Apple to ransom over not supporting it by not buying Apple won't fix your problem - and neither will buying Android instead - because neither will run it in later OS's. It's dead - gone to meet its maker, pinin' for the fjords, nailed to the perch. The holes you speak of will be disappearing as time goes on and web builders leave Flash for HTML5. There are plenty of detractors out there - so here we go...

iTunes - list your tracks on screen. Select those you want. Drag to desktop. Sent to friends. Put on PC device. It works. Have you tried? I've done this and sent a friend or two tracks that were even bought on iTunes - and are "meant" to be DRM protected. Go figure. Very handy though.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

I enjoy reading with my iPad in bed or lounging around on my favourite reading chair. Anything that has to be placed on a flat surface to work - like a note/netbook of any kind, where you have to type downwards onto a flat keyboard, simply won't...uhmmm... work. I'd use my little MacBook Air if it did. It doesn't. You know that Fred.

Exactly, that's why I love my iPad too

Just wait till some one puts the same physical experience with win 7, properly, just like an iPad.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Oh really, well lucky you . I had to replace a battery on an iPhone, guess what happens when you walk into an Apple store and ask for a spare battery
, your treated like a complete nana, "oh no, you can't have that, are you stupid even asking?" Only Apple

I got one on the net natch, no problem. Pity Apple cant be bothered with even that level of support.

I said iPad Fred, not iPhone. The average iPad battery lasts for at least 10 hours - longer than most people need day to day. I've never used it long enough to have actually run out of juice - except on a 16 hour flight when watching movies and reading books. I simply plugged it in to the airline seat to charge - no biggie - and kept going.

Replacement batteries aren't considered "spare" as such - they're replacement! Did you buy one thinking that you could have it in your glovebox ready to change it every day on the way home after work? Take your car charger with you! I take it that you're giving me bollocks because you know I'll bite. I don't take any one person's negative shopping experience as the universal modus operandi for any store or brand. 99.99 percent of people would NOT want to change their own battery by levering open their very expensive tech toy - so why would Apple make them available through Apple stores? You're a special case Fred - because you, like me, are fully capable or buggering the warranty and opening up our devices to change a measly stuffed battery. I understand that not being able to commonly buy one is a pain. I bought one for my old iPhone 3GS off eBay a while ago and it's certainly not difficult to do.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

I know you said iPad, the iPhone is a similar deal, Apple won't sell you a battery for either.

Spare or replacement, don't care, same diff, it's just a battery.

The battery carked it, I just needed another one.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Oh really, well lucky you . I had to replace a battery on an iPhone, guess what happens when you walk into an Apple store and ask for a spare battery
, your treated like a complete nana, "oh no, you can't have that, are you stupid even asking?" Only Apple

I got one on the net natch, no problem. Pity Apple cant be bothered with even that level of support.

I am sorry, but you can't completely blame Apple for the people it's Australian arm employs, particularly given that retail outlets have a great deal of problems finding decent staff. Although the person behind the counter is the "face" of Apple, it cannot be Apple's fault if that person doesn't do his job properly, or if he personally doesn't care, which is what I have mostly experienced.

In today's market, giving really great service can be the difference between a company staying in business or not. When I find a person that gives really great service I tend to only deal with that person, case in point, Michael or Don at Bintel; or Klaus at Extravisions, which just happens to be the only three astro salespersons that I deal with in Australia.

I think your comments are justified, but only to a point. It isn't the product and it isn't whether you have a problem with that product, it is how the problem is dealt with is the important thing and as far as it goes, you are correct in your comments. But, don't complain about it unless you have sent a compliant to their head office.

If head office is made aware, they may respond very differently, they may actually want to make sure you have a good experience with their product. Although I haven't had to deal with Apple at this level, I can't comment. But, I have with other companies, because of their staff giving shoddy service and I have had very positive responses, in the most part. And those times I didn't, I stopped dealing with those companies and their products.

If you are not prepared to go to that level, then don't blame the product or service you get. Apple is a big corporation and cannot watch over all it's staff, all the time. No corporation can or should have to, for that matter.

I will always complain about bad service, otherwise the company doesn't know and cannot do anything about it. Most companies will, I have found.

[irwjager (Ivo)]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

The one thing I've and, I presume you, have never needed - ever - to change on an iPad. Why would they provide a replaceable battery when one isn't needed? All the extra cradle/lock mechanism does is take up room - resulting in your bog-standard thick and heavy Android cheapie.

Yes, I had to replace the battery on my iPhone 2G because it wouldn't hold charge anymore (just out of warranty of course). Let me tell you that procedure is not for the faint hearted.

Battery life on my iPod Touch 3G is starting to look iffy as well. Must be something I do to them...

On the old chestnut - these perceived restrictions. Ivo - my company also develops apps for both the iOS and Android platforms. I respect what Apple are trying to do here - deliver and maintain a consistently-reliable user experience. This is is ultra-important to Apple - they made their name on user simplicity. Your applications and self are put through the App Store ringer for very good and valid reasons. I don't believe that their practises stifle creativity - take a look at music apps on both platforms. Android hasn't even reached the stage where universal and compliant MIDI control is available yet. iOS has had it for ages. Horses for courses. These two giants (iOS and Android) will leap-frog each other for decades - and to our mutual benefit! Jeez I'm hopeless - I knew this would happen.

Chris, these restrictions are very real unfortunately and do very much impact consumer choice and innovation.

Many a cool idea died on the drawing board because of Apple's restrictions (I work with a creative agency, mainly active in the music industry). My latest iOS app was an app for Alice Cooper's new album. We had to significantly rein in the client's expectations (distributing interactive tracks as individual apps, aggregating them, making cross mixes) because such a thing is not allowed by Apple.

Other areas that consumers miss out on due to Apple's restrictions is the vast realm of emulators, as well as anything under the GPLv2 license such as the popular open source VLC player which had to be pulled from the store because of it.

There is also - and I admit it is not everyone's cup of tea - a huge demand for bringing interactive (non-web) content from the adult industry to mobile devices. It's again an area where consumers on iOS that do want access to such content miss out.

Straight ports of games from yesteryear that use a framebuffer (e.g. individual pixel manipulation) are also impossible because Apple does not allow the use of the necessary APIs.

Look, I appreciate quality control and can even appreciate Apple's thinking as you describe it, but in actual fact there's more to it. If Apple were really concerned with offering just 'quality' software, then that is still no reason to disallow parallel app stores to exist. They don't have to endorse it at all, but they should leave the user (and creator) the choice on how to use their devices. Just like Google have their own store and there are many other stores.

As for Android's abysmal state of audio reproduction, I couldn't agree more. They have finally addressed the latency issue to some degree in ICS though, but it is still much higher than iOS. But at least I am allowed, even encouraged(!), to hook up an Arduino to my Android enabled device to make all sorts of wild musical peripherals.

Let's not forget that Android can not build on the legacy of MacOSX like iOS does (iOS is a straight derivative of MacOSX as you know), so I do cut them some slack.

On Android though, rooting (no, that's not Aussie slang! ) your phone is now accepted by the big manufacturers as a fact of life. And if I don't like how Google implemented MIDI control, at least I'm free to write it myself and compile myself a new ROM.

Cheers,