Why the hostility against the Science forum?.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

Speaking for myself.
I find the "vigorous debates" to be intimidating.
And quite frankly I am too scared to contribute to any of the science threads, knowing the sorts of comments that may be directed at me if I do.
I don't like feeling this way, it's horrible.
I find no joy or enlightenment in the Science forum.

I'm pretty sure the other women on the forum feel much the same way.

You should contribute, JJJ. I know how you feel, though. I leave the forum for extended periods simply because I get sick and tired of it all and just want a break. It wears you down after awhile.

[renormalised (Carl)]

9000 posts???!!!!....knew I was getting there but didn't realise I just passed it!!!

[kinetic (Steve)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

I've also been an amateur astronomer for 40 years. I think there's some mileage in that

(Carl, this is not directed at you....)

I've been an amateur astronomer for approx 35- ish years if you start counting from the moment of my first enlightening moment as a kid.

Does that make me worthy of having an opinion in a Science forum? Maybe.
Does it make me any more worthy than an amateur with 5 years...
or 1 year?

I don't think it does. The sooner we leave the elitist attitude at the door
and be more accommodating to people the better.
It is never going to be easy. This hobby does attract huge egos. I can't
deny having an ego when it comes to knowing my stuff and the hard yards I have put in.
I like to put a bit back in though. I like to help other budget minded
tinkerers and ATM enthusiasts see a cheaper alternative...or display
something I have found works that maybe I stumbled upon.
A science forum should attempt to be the same.
If you put people off then you will have a very quiet sub forum all to
yourself.
I certainly don't envy the job of a moderator here

[casstony]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

Speaking for myself.
I find the "vigorous debates" to be intimidating.

I'm pretty sure the other women on the forum feel much the same way.

Quite a few of us guys don't enjoy conflict either. We need you girls to have a go at running the world I think - you couldn't do any worse than the current bunch.

I think the trick with vigorous debates is to say what you've got to say then stop participating, rather than everyone repeating themselves and going around in circles.

[TrevorW]

Scientific debate is healthy and I attack everything from my logical point of view but when I flounder yet find it interesting then I'll do the research.

If after doing the research my opinion differs from someone elses I am still adult enough to understand that people may not always agree and some people have more expertise in a subject than I do so I will try and respect their point of view.

We have a forum TOS in which it states that we should not make a derogatory remark about another forum member in an open forum.

If you don't like what someone has said or find it offensive tell them so via a PM, but try and respect each other.

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by casstony

Quite a few of us guys don't enjoy conflict either. We need you girls to have a go at running the world I think - you couldn't do any worse than the current bunch.

I think the trick with vigorous debates is to say what you've got to say then stop participating, rather than everyone repeating themselves and going around in circles.

er, - to clarify... Our PM, Governor General, Queen in that order being our three highest officials. The current bunch ARE women !! Well almost anyway in JG's case

Sorry, just having a bit of a play with that statement for joke and humour value only. It's not my intention to start WW3

[Ric]

Originally Posted by bmitchell82

Ric I think your trying to weed out the ACE's These people are my pet hates! Experts with no knowledge!

You are wrong Brendan, I am not trying to weed anyone out. I wish to know what their particular level of understanding is. In fact I would encourage people to ask questions and express view be they beginners or experts.

If that is the perception then I apologise to those who feel that way. It was not the intention.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by kinetic

(Carl, this is not directed at you....)

I've been an amateur astronomer for approx 35- ish years if you start counting from the moment of my first enlightening moment as a kid.

Does that make me worthy of having an opinion in a Science forum?
Does it make me any more worthy than an amateur with 5 years...
or 1 year?

I don't think it does...........

You should have an opinion, Steve. If you feel you know something, then contribute. It doesn't have to be overly theoretical if you're not comfortable about that sort of thing. Anyone, whether they've been in the hobby 1 or 100 years is equally "worthy" of any discussion in any forum. All I had done was stated my qualifications, as Ric had, just to clear the air on where I was coming from. It may mean I know some more than the next person about the subject, but there are plenty out there that would make me look like a dunce. There are plenty of people in this forum who know more than I do. I listen to them, rather than argue, simply because I respect their knowledge and their willingness to share it.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by PCH

er, - to clarify... Our PM, Governor General, Queen in that order being our three highest officials. The current bunch ARE women !! Well almost anyway in JG's case

Sorry, just having a bit of a play with that statement for joke and humour value only. It's not my intention to start WW3

Actually, Paul, the levels of "officialdom" there are the other way around

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

Actually, Paul, the levels of "officialdom" there are the other way around

Well, they're still women, which was my point. But I take yours too

[rainwatcher (Peter)]

I think i may have identified those that voted no sense of humour in my poll
Also at the fear of being told to stick to simpler things, i can not even find the science forum in the forum list.

[Kevnool (Kev)]

Theres some mighty big words used in the science forum.
To many for me to google.
Like most i read only some of the posts but thats me.

Dont worry be happy.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Kevnool

Theres some mighty big words used in the science forum.To many for me to google.

Same here. But I like the links posted occasionaly. With big pictures and videos hopefully

[Karls48 (Karl)]

Craig you asked why? and I’m answering. I’m not going to go to endless discussion with you about this.
First of all we are talking about Astronomy and Amateur Science forum. You have tried in the past to appoint yourself as moderator and change forum description. That did not happen and as such any one can contribute and express their thoughts about Science and Astronomy, however misinformed – from your point of view.
You have turned Astronomy & Amateur Science forum to virtual monologue and you have to have last word on anything.. No one to my best knowledge called you or Steven “ brute animal”. Any descent to your ideas you see as personal attack on you
I wonder how would you respond if someone ‘s response to post you made would be “ What a load of rubbish” ? You have used different expression but the meaning was same. The fact is that most of the members are avoiding this forum now and I see your attitude as main cause.
If you are seeking “to scramble their way into the rigid perspectives demanded by scientific rigor.” There must be number of forums with strict rules of the content that will suit your scientific pursuit better.
Until the owner of IIS chances rules, there are almost ten thousands of the members and they should be free to post in this forum without being ridiculed by some - I know everything - would be scientist.

[UniPol]

Originally Posted by Ric

As for me, a Batchelor in Geology is my skill set but I haven't been in the field for over 20 years so I would say I'm very rusty. I would say I have an average understanding of Physics and Chemistry as well.

Cheers

Very clever Ric, I almost passed over your (deliberate?) misspelling of "Bachelor" .

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

I used to frequent the Astronomy and Amateur Science section. I came to realise relatively quickly it was mostly filled with posts by the same handful of people, with the same cut-throat unrelenting mentality of "I am right" or "I must have the last word" or "Does not match current scientific theory" approach. Its also disgraceful how someone with ignorance in a topic area is treated. Often they are attacked and belittled. I even read one regular responding to someones question with "I am astounded, no, flabbergasted by your level of ignorance".
I don't know but that sounds like a complete lack of respect to another human being to me.


That being said I have always enjoyed Carl's(Renormalised) posts(I've mentioned Carl because someone mentioned him in an earlier post). They are always interesting and factual. They always lack the seemingly malicious rigid responses and arguments you come across in those forums. What a nice fellow he is.

I can't help but feel the Astronomy and Amateur Science forums has become a sort of "poisoned ground", kind of like Chernobyl. You can go there if you want, but if you wish to escape unscathed wear an environmental suit and a bullet proof vest.

If I had it my way I'd burn it to the ground and start over. Create a separate forum for Astronomy related items only where people can discuss supernova discoveries, other interesting discoveries, developments in Astronomy, astronomy related questions and what not.
The other forum is for Amateur Science where all the and quantum and theoretical physicists with the same handful of arm chair experts can argue the rigors of science and semantics together in their own padded cell.

If you read this and possibly feel offended by my comments about the Astronomy and Amateur Science forums perhaps you should ask yourself why that is?

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

The forum in question is called Astronomy and Amateur Science which I took to mean I could make any observations I had on scientific matters. It's not like the title was Astronomy and Professional Science forum. I have been treated badly when I ventured foolhardedly into the forum also.

I believe anyone who thinks is an Amateur Scientist by definition.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

As I have already said in a previous thread similar to this one that "I used to thoroughly enjoy the Science Forum but not any more".
It has become quite elitist and 'IQ testosteronal' in the last 12 months that I find no interest or comfort in reading thread after thread of argument between who can use the biggest most technical words or make the other sound less intelligent.

I can read and enjoy most posts or threads written by Steve, Carl, Bert, Marc, Mark and a few others as I either know what their knowledge base is or I like the manner in which they consider others in their debates.
But unfortunately, due to the discomfort and domination in there, I very rarely ever venture in there.

Yes, IIS is a website with a Forum devoted to 'Amateur Astronomers' and many of those Amateurs like to read, discuss, and learn about the Astrophysical side of things.
It is NOT a lecture hall for the Head Professor to enforce his beliefs and get steamed up if anyone disagrees. That is childish.

But I also have a choice. If I don't like a particular thread I don't have to read it. I choose not to go there often.

[Keltik (Trevor)]

What seems to have been highlighted by this thread is that some people have considerable experience and qualification in high-level science.
Unfortunately,(and I single out no-one in particular) this can occasionally translate into a certain degree of what I call "ego-maintenance": my qualifications are ME.
Defence of the Almighty Me is what is the problem here. The negativity and aggression displayed in some of the posts I have read in my short time in this forum have been most unedifying. It is an appalling trait to sneer at the interests of some contributors, and it would do the people involved a world of good to realise their own particular field of interest can have the same criticisms validly levelled back at it.

[spacezebra (Petra)]

I agree with Ric - I enjoy the Science Forum.

If there are topics that are a bit heavy - I get into some reading about the topic so I do understand it, ask questions, get info from other sources to compare. I enjoy Physics and Maths so - to me I pick and choose what I want to get out of it - like most of the forums.

Originally Posted by Ric

The science forum is a great place, lots of interesting threads and comments. It sometimes gets a bit heated but that is the nature of scientific discussion.

Most of time it's a bit high powered for me to jump in with an opinion but if I ever have a question be assured I'll ask it.

Cheers Petra d.