Desalination, the way of the future?

[acropolite (Phil)]

Kearn wrote

what i find amusing is that i never heard the astronomers complaining when cassini was launched with 10 kg of plutonium on board

Two wrongs don't make a right Kearn, I don't trust anything, especially if it's made or designed in the US. Radioactive waste isn't something that breaks down in years or even centuries, to leave such hazardous compounds for future generations is IMO irresponsible. Alternatives such as Wind, Wave and Solar are the answer, together with energy conservation.

[mickoking]

I hope they can find an economical way to use Fusion power generation, Thats good, clean nuclear power

Apparently the Russians want to mine Helium 3 (for nuclear fusion) from the moon starting in 2020. If they can do it that Would be fantastic.

[fringe_dweller]

guys I sincerely wish there was a serious alternative, like minature black holes or anyone of those mentioned in fact would be fantastic, and who knows maybe they will develop into something substantial. i realise that their hearts are in the right place.
But lets face we need solutionss right now! may I remind you we are still waiting for the flying car!!? and that was from the 50's!
And Phil south aussies are very familiar with the consequences of radiation, from when the poms used to test atom bombs on us and especially the local aboriginies at maralinga (well they never found a whole tribe in fact, just their shadows i think?) in the 50's and 60's
any sa gp whos been here long enough will tell you about the long term generational effects (mostly cancers) from the clouds of radioactivity that the prevailing winds carried to adelaide and on some occasions over qld and nsw - whole east coast in fact once? lovely

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

A very interesting thread ....
I'm all for the Water tanks Idea.
Sad fact is the Govt made people remove their yukky old watertanks in Brisbane years ago, now you are penalised if you dont put one in when you build a new house
On the issue of Lawns ... I think they are great
Anyone who has young kids would understand why.
.... OK kids, go out and run around in the dirt !
What, another set of clothes to wash !
Oh well I will just do 2 or 3 loads more loads of clothes washing
Oh but hang on that will use more water & of course I will have to buy more clothes for them (probably cotton , what a wasteof water)
Hmmmm I think I had better grow my Lawn back

[ACE]

Radioactive waste isn't something that breaks down in years or even centuries, to leave such hazardous compounds for future generations is IMO irresponsible

And burning coal and creating greenhouse emissions is more responsible ? Skin cancer is on the up and up thanks to the breakdown of the ozone layer.

Don't worry - nuclear power is still too expensive to be viable (about 3x conventional)

I would have to disagree with the above.

FWIW: Coal effecieny is roughly 3 kWh per kg.
Gas - 5 kWh per kg
Nuclear - 50000 kWh kg

Solar/wind - just not viable atm.

If hydrogren could be tapped safely, our preys would be answered - and the byproduct - H2O.

[stinky]

Could you convert that into $ per Kw/h operation rather than kilograms?

And back to the thread about desalination - I just watched an advert about a new mother saying she could not believe how much (cost) washing detergent she was using. We'll only see true management of water when the adverts are saying "how much water" is being used.

Bottom line - we have no need of nuclear - or desalination if we stop wasting energy and water. When people see these two item as interchangeable (with attached personal cost) we are over half way to a solution (no pun!)......

[Adrian-H]

i recommend this book.
The Singularity Is Near : When Humans Transcend Biology

[ving (David)]

Originally Posted by gaa_ian

On the issue of Lawns ... I think they are great
Anyone who has young kids would understand why.
.... OK kids, go out and run around in the dirt !
What, another set of clothes to wash !
Oh well I will just do 2 or 3 loads more loads of clothes washing
Oh but hang on that will use more water & of course I will have to buy more clothes for them (probably cotton , what a wasteof water)
Hmmmm I think I had better grow my Lawn back

I think we should all run around naked

for those that dont like lawns, what alternative would you sugest?
concrete?
bitumen?
just plain dirt?

I dont like any of those alternatives... yeah mowing is a pain in the butt, but its better than these alternatives

[norm]

Astroturf and that recycled rubber stuff in childrens play areas in parks are alternatives to lawn.

Having said that I prefer lawn. Kids need somewhere to play and there is no real substitute for lawns/grass. Imagine playing britsh bulldog on bitumen - ouch!

A lot of people no longer water their lawns in Sydney due to restrictions and most seem to stay green. Occassionally you may get the old dry patch but grass is fairly tough and seems to re-juvenate itself over time, albeit with the damn weeds!

I think the majority of people of Australia wide are responsible for water management and conservation. Its just seems to be the governments dilly dally, wishy washy approach to making decisions that hold back many proactive, pragmatic water reform ideas.

[ving (David)]

Originally Posted by norm

A lot of people no longer water their lawns in Sydney due to restrictions and most seem to stay green. Occassionally you may get the old dry patch but grass is fairly tough and seems to re-juvenate itself over time, albeit with the damn weeds!

its funny, my backyard (which is pretty small) is nice and green for the most part, but my front yard is starting to look like a desert (not the type with chocolate topping)... weeds wont even grow in the front yard!

desalination? yeah sure! most people are fairly conservative now with water so maybe another supply is required.

[fringe_dweller]

maybe we just need a few 'Z' machines for the required power? http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060313.html

[acropolite (Phil)]

Ace wrote

Solar/wind - just not viable atm.

Try telling that to Aurora Tasmania(the power utility). In Tasmania we don't burn coal BTW, most of our power is produced by Hydro and to a lesser extent wind farms with a small proportion (backup only when necessary) by Gas. As for solar not being viable, that's simply not true, the setup costs are high but the technology is (and has been for decades) achievable if not overly affordable.

[ving (David)]

Originally Posted by acropolite

Ace wrote Try telling that to Aurora Tasmania(the power utility). In Tasmania we don't burn coal BTW, most of our power is produced by Hydro and to a lesser extent wind farms with a small proportion (backup only when necessary) by Gas. As for solar not being viable, that's simply not true, the setup costs are high but the technology is (and has been for decades) achievable if not overly affordable.

yes people cant see past the initial costs... (reads pollies dont want to spend the money in thier short stay therefore giving them selves a bad name for spending so much)
if pollies were in for a longer term then maybe change would happen?

most of our power is produced by Hydro

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by norm

This is a hot topic if you live in Sydney!!!

Its a lot hotter if you live on the Central Coast where the dam level is now under 20%

http://svc140.bne039u.server-web.com/frame2.htm

CS-John B

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by acropolite

As for solar not being viable, that's simply not true, the setup costs are high but the technology is (and has been for decades) achievable if not overly affordable.

If talking about photovoltaic solar cells, I heard a stat that it takes 20 years to break even on the energy used to manufacture them

[stinky]

I heard that they NEVER break even in energy budget, but that was some time ago - before efficiencies improved.

[ving (David)]

i was watching "beyond tomorrow", they showed "hot rock" energy where they pump water down to where hot rocks are and it comes back up as super-heated steam which they use to turn turbines of something to create energy... aparently the on going cost is similar to our current energy production but not harmfull to the planet at all....

http://hotrock.anu.edu.au/