ICEINSPACE
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Waning Crescent 13.3%
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04-11-2011, 10:26 PM
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Newtonian power! Love it!
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mandurah
Posts: 2,597
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Its got nothing to do with whos is bigger my friend Im all for truth and facts the more facts to back up what your saying the better in my eyes! Im not being one eyed either Im telling the honest truth in what i have seen.
It wasn't to do with the fact that the image was sharper at all... its that it was visible in a scope that had 100mm less mirror than in the scope that had a massive advantage in light grab. Now if thats being one eyed .... ill put my hand up and proclaim to be as one eyed as you can get.
I also understand that you where comparing your two scopes. but once again your comparing a telescope thats quality is far supirior than that of a cheap chinese mass produced mirror with nothing more than a lick of see though aluminium... get a torch behind that mirror you will understand what im talking about. So you see what im saying here is you get a newtonian thats in the same league. well ill let you guys be the judge of that when you finally get to compare apples with apples.
Further more Peter i have come to realise that when starting in this hobby looking though any telescope will blow you away! It takes many years and more than i have on the ODO to be able to really tell the difference apart with optics on a mirror. I thought my telescope had some decent views till I had the absolute pleasure to collimate a SDM 25" telescope and then look though the eye piece it made my insignificant worm look like i had got some perspex and some how focused a picture to a eye piece.!
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04-11-2011, 11:04 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 4,374
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 You are bang on there Peter , .
the differance in image brightness between my 1971 60mm Meade refractor and the 63mm of my Zeiss Telementor is quite a lot at the eye piece , easily seen .  only 3mm .
Fun on a good night mate I enjoy a evening using my refractors on the 5-8 day old moon  . I view with my small scopes more than the cannons , ,5 miniute's up and running .... 
same in reverse at 2am
Jupiter looks good right now ..
in my 63mm. at 93x .
Brian.
Brian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poita
My 10" is the same weight as the C11, and side by side with the 9.25 it has always delivered better images of Jupiter, without exception. The 10" gives you 20% more light grasp than the 9.25 which, not drastic, but noticaeble. The Meade also has mirror lock and for non planetary work the flat field of the ACF is a big advantage.
I think the 9.25 is a great scope, but I think its reputation exceeds its reality a bit. Yes it is a *little* flatter than the C8 or C11, but nowhere near as flat as the Meade ACF or Celestron EDGE HD scopes. The only advantage I see it having is weight, I think it is about 2.5kg lighter or so.
Not sure which is easier to cool down to ambient temperature.
I also have a celestron C8 and the M10 gives way better images on planetary. I haven't had a chance to side-by-side with the C11, I would be interested in seeing how it compares, as it has the hyperstar option for DSO work, and is a large enough aperture to put a decent camera on it.
They are all great scopes.
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04-11-2011, 11:20 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 4,374
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 Brendon , Fellow New't lover .
Brother I built a 10 inch f/10 . 2500mm focal lenght , she has a 3/4 inch ( 20mm) secondary , and on the planets , ( welcome back jupiter ! )
the views ar as good as any I have seen in any sized scope , no matter the design the closest was a C14 on jupiter , but my 10 inch Newt beat it out , on the image in the eyepiece , mine was a 10mm celestron Plossel at 250x.
!0 inch f/10 sharp views .
Oh yea we spent weeks comparing as none of us could bieleve this . .  cool , my scope .
Brian..
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmitchell82
Its got nothing to do with whos is bigger my friend Im all for truth and facts the more facts to back up what your saying the better in my eyes! Im not being one eyed either Im telling the honest truth in what i have seen.
It wasn't to do with the fact that the image was sharper at all... its that it was visible in a scope that had 100mm less mirror than in the scope that had a massive advantage in light grab. Now if thats being one eyed .... ill put my hand up and proclaim to be as one eyed as you can get.
I also understand that you where comparing your two scopes. but once again your comparing a telescope thats quality is far supirior than that of a cheap chinese mass produced mirror with nothing more than a lick of see though aluminium... get a torch behind that mirror you will understand what im talking about. So you see what im saying here is you get a newtonian thats in the same league. well ill let you guys be the judge of that when you finally get to compare apples with apples.
Further more Peter i have come to realise that when starting in this hobby looking though any telescope will blow you away! It takes many years and more than i have on the ODO to be able to really tell the difference apart with optics on a mirror. I thought my telescope had some decent views till I had the absolute pleasure to collimate a SDM 25" telescope and then look though the eye piece it made my insignificant worm look like i had got some perspex and some how focused a picture to a eye piece.!
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05-11-2011, 12:45 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dulwich Hill, Australia
Posts: 116
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Well we have got way off track here, but I always enjoy reading the number of opinions out there!
Brendan, you can put me down as "Type 1" astro-photographer. I am not after perfection, but really a taste of what is possible. But I am in awe of some of the shots you guys get. My fear is that I might get hooked and then want to become a "Type 2". Something I just can't afford time-wise (and $$$ too)!
Anyway, I respect that optical performance is far better in a good newt, but when I really think about it, I just want a good sized scope that I can easily fit in the car so that it get used as much as possible. I can live with the optical compromise the SCTs have in favour of ease of transportation and still using my CGEM goto mount.
I respect the passion you guys have for optical perfection!
James
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05-11-2011, 12:59 PM
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Newtonian power! Love it!
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mandurah
Posts: 2,597
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No problems James,
Its just a good thing to have all the information there so you can make the most informed decision possible. One other thing don''t discount weight out of the situation.
Good luck and let us know which way you swing in the end
Brendan
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05-11-2011, 02:53 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canberra
Posts: 688
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Hi James,
I have owned both Meade and Celestron SCT's 8", 10" and 11".
If you are looking at laying out $6000.00 or a little bit more on an OTA I would seriously consider stepping up to a Takahashi Mewlon 250 or 250CR.
For visual use, and from personal experience with all three, the Mewlon 250 will provide far superior resolution and high contrast visuals. This scope should fit OK on your mount with the proper mount plates and is very easily portable.
I have now moved up to the Mewlon 300 and the visuals are stunning. However the Mewlon 300 is a heavy beast.
Mewlons do have long FL even with the reducer so that is something to consider but I have seen many high quality images produced by other Mewlon owners that are more into Astrophotography than visual.
Typically those owners have had PME, EM400/500 or AP mounts.
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05-11-2011, 05:35 PM
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Resident Rigel fanboy
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ausastronomer
What my 14" SDM with Zambuto mirror does to them is laughable. John B
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I'd love to look at DSO's through the 14" SDM!
Lucky you John!
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05-11-2011, 07:20 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dulwich Hill, Australia
Posts: 116
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Thanks Phil,
I had never considered Mewlon before. So this is basically a cross between a newt and an SCT? No corrector plate, smaller secondary mirror, but somehow, much higher focal length?
My budget is around the 3 - 4000 mark. I can get the C11 EdgeHD for the 3300 mark from USA. The Mewlon 210 is similarly priced, but the Mewlon 250 is $7500. I can't justify this much.
Also, being a refractor owner, I like the sealed design - no worries about cleaning mirrors etc. I assume you need to do this on a mewlon?
Any ideas how the Mewlon 210 would compare to a C11 EdgeHD? I am guessing sharper image, but less light gathering capability?
Cheers
James
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05-11-2011, 08:36 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canberra
Posts: 688
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Hi James,
$3300.00 is very good is that secondhand or new??
The Mewlon is a Dall Kirkham Cassegrain design so uses different mirrors than Newtonian. Also there is no corrector plate like an SCT.
The Tak Mewlons have very high quality optical and mechanical construction. Sometimes this is hard to gauge unless you see and use one but once you do then you will understand what I am talking about.
As for cleaning all telescopes need their optical surfaces cleaned at some stage. SCT corrector plates get just as dusty as Newtonian or other open tube design scopes. It is just a little bit easier to clean the corrector plates on SCT's.
On the other hand open tube designs cool down quicker. My Meade and Celestron SCT's used to get very warm inside the tubes. You could actually feel the rush of warm air being released at the visual back. The latest designs have vents and cooling fans to help overcome this.
As for comparing the 210 against the C11 EdgeHD I would not be able to say having never used those particular models. However Takahashi do much higher quality optics and mechanicals than both Celestron and Meade.
Cheers
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05-11-2011, 10:54 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dulwich Hill, Australia
Posts: 116
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Hi Phil,
I buy most of my gear from the USA as the local distributers for most scopes are just price gouging the Aussie market. I use an intermediary in the USA to get the stuff sent here. The C11 Edge OTA brand new retails for $3400 in the USA from most online outlets. The same thing in Australia costs $5800!? I bought my CGEM from the USA for the same reason.
2nd hand, the C11 EdgeHD OTA goes for the $2400 USD mark. I may do that if a good clean one comes up.
A Mewlon 250S is currently for sale on Astromart for $5800. Probably a great price, but really out of my price range.
Thanks for the offer of help - I am really enjoying this discovery process.
Cheers
James
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06-11-2011, 03:41 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NSW Country
Posts: 3,586
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It will be $3400 + $340 GST + a few hundred in freight, + import duties.
I think that will end up over $4000 by the time it is landed here.
2nd hand EDGE HD's come up on astromart often though and could be worthwhile.
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06-11-2011, 04:01 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 970
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There is no import duties on telescopes and their mounts from the US. What you do have to watch is that im pretty sure celestron will not honour any warantee when it is shipped out of the country.
Thats the reason I went with local dealers.
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06-11-2011, 05:26 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NSW Country
Posts: 3,586
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I thought there was a customs handling charge or something in addition to the GST?
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06-11-2011, 05:45 PM
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Newtonian power! Love it!
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mandurah
Posts: 2,597
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My understanding is its 10% on anything over 1000 dollars.
Importing stuff from over seas is a massive debate and one that has been debated argued and thrashed that hard its not funny. My opinion is its all the same and if i can save 2-3k by going over seas, ill insure my equipment for malfunction over here. easy
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06-11-2011, 06:47 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Warragul, Vic
Posts: 4,494
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If the value of the scope is over AU$1000,
GST= 10% of [value of goods + shipping + insurance].
ie. you also pay 10% tax on the shipping and insurance cost.
The value of the scope is calculated using the exchange rate on the day the scope is posted.
If you use a freight company rather than postal service, the freight company will also charge handling fees.
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06-11-2011, 09:11 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dulwich Hill, Australia
Posts: 116
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Pretty close, here are my figures:
I have been offered the C11 EdgeHD OTA for a small discount and I can calculate the shipping from our USA office given the OTA shipping weight is 41 pounds (free shipping within the USA).
OTA: $3340
Shipping fee: $188
Insurance: Allow $50
GST: $358
Customs Handling Fee: $60
No Customs Duty on Telescope gear (thanks to NAFTA!).
Total (assuming 1:1 AUD:USD): $3996
I'd rather take the risk on warranty and have the OTA delivered by DHL to my door to save $1804 on local supplier prices.
If there is a warranty issue, I will send back to the supplier via the USA office.
I saved $1200 on CGEM mount buying it this way (and the posted weight was 95 pounds!). However I always ring two suppliers locally to check if they "want to meet me half way" on the price difference, but they always politely decline. This is how I figured the local shops are being gouged by the local distributer, there just isn't much in it for them.
I am also watching Astromart for a good used one. One came up this week for $2380.
James
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