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  #21  
Old 05-08-2011, 12:06 PM
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Others have tried before.
See
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn
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  #22  
Old 05-08-2011, 12:16 PM
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That's pretty amazing stuff Terry

Thanks for the link
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  #23  
Old 05-08-2011, 12:24 PM
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It seems that the BBC news thought the story was legitimate.

The mental giant was interviewed by the BBC and claimed he purchased the materials on Ebay.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14406766

The sale of radioactive material on Ebay is prohibited.

Quote:
Atomic or nuclear blast items (such as hot rocks, items from a blast or testing zone, and Trinitite)
Items considered problematic by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and that the NRC has asked to be removed from eBay
Items described in a listing as radioactive
Nuclear materials
Radioactive waste or contaminated materials
Radium
Raw depleted uranium
Tritium in large amounts (such as certain types of glow sticks and exit signs)
Troxler moisture density gauge
Regards

Steven
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  #24  
Old 05-08-2011, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorW View Post
This element's reactivity makes it ideally suited to making fuel for nuclear power plants, reactors which power submarines, and of course nuclear weapons.
Hmm..
Uranium's chemical reactivity has nothing to do with it's use as a nuclear fuel.
Also it must be noted that only isotope suitable as fission material is U235.
U238 (most abundant isotope) is used in rounds, because it is heavy (so penetrates well into other materials), and because it is chemically reactive (basically it burns (oxidises) violently (especially at higher temperatures and when in aerosol mode after bursting through shield) so it serves as a kind of explosive charge.
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  #25  
Old 05-08-2011, 12:33 PM
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The book "The Radioactive Boy Scout" tells how David Hahn constructed his own breeder reactor as a teenager in his mother's garden shed !

Its fascinating reading if you can still find in a library.

The amazing thing is he was not only able to find out how to source his raw materials from ordinary places - Americium from old smoke detectors, Thorium from stock damaged gas lantern mantels which he ingeniously refined, but that the regulatory authorities and universities actually provided him with a lot of the information on how to do it !
He sent many letters to various people under various false names and guises, these letters were full of typos and poor grammar but were still replied to.

A very quick outline

The Americium produced alpha rays which when bombarded into Aluminium produced neutrons which in turn when bombarded the Thorium produced Uranium - but his Neutron gun wasn't powerful enough.

So he then used Radium from the paint used to illuminate old clock dials and refined it for his Alpha Ray source and used a piece of more efficient Beryllium as the target and now directed his fully functioning neutron gun at some Pitchblende ore (contains small amounts of Uranium) he had managed to get.

This was now becoming more radioactive by the day.

He then decided to make a Breeder Reactor and combined all of this Radium, Americium, Beryllium and Aluminum into an aluminium foil wrapped reactor core and surrounded this core with the Thorium and Uranium wrapped up in little foil packages and held together with duct tape and a blanket !

His Breeder Reactor worked.

By this stage his Gieger counter was detecting radiation half a suburban block away so he thought he better break it down into smaller pieces and take it away and got caught by the police only because there was report of a teenager stealing car tyres and he was driving around in the early hours of the morning.

The guys in moon suits came as part of a Radiation Response emergency and dismantled his now highly contaminated 'nuclear laboratory' which consisted of nothing much more than few old pots and pans and a milk crate in a small potting shed - total value probably $2.00 !

He was not charged and went to the Navy on a Sub, where he apparently wasnt allowed near the reactors.

Its worth reading.

Rally

Oops I now see Terry already posted a Wikipedia link for David Hahn - sorry

Last edited by rally; 05-08-2011 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Duplicated info
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  #26  
Old 05-08-2011, 12:58 PM
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all you ever wanted to know about how to make a reactor at home

http://reactor1967.fortunecity.com/
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  #27  
Old 05-08-2011, 02:00 PM
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Guys.. please get serious.
If it was so simple, we would have been obliterated couple of times already and world would have been a very different place..

All those are nothing but urban legends... just like UFO's.. or cold fission... or... whatever else.
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  #28  
Old 05-08-2011, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bojan View Post
Guys.. please get serious.
If it was so simple, we would have been obliterated couple of times already and world would have been a very different place..

All those are nothing but urban legends... just like UFO's.. or cold fission... or... whatever else.
Thats just the point so why take it seriously
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  #29  
Old 05-08-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
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Thats just the point so why take it seriously
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  #30  
Old 05-08-2011, 02:48 PM
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If this numbskull was somehow able to moderate the energy of the colliding neutrons so that nuclei would be able to capture them and undergo fission, then he and any unfortunate individual nearby would quickly succumb not to radiation, but the neutrons formed in the chain reaction.

Any talk of meltdowns in the kitchen or other individuals making their own mini reactors is the stuff of mythology.

Regards

Steven
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  #31  
Old 05-08-2011, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bojan View Post
Guys.. please get serious.
If it was so simple, we would have been obliterated couple of times already and world would have been a very different place..

All those are nothing but urban legends... just like UFO's.. or cold fission... or... whatever else.
I don't think David Hahn is an urban myth. He idn't make a reactor but her certainly made a seriously hot house. (pun intended)
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  #32  
Old 05-08-2011, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry B View Post
I don't think David Hahn is an urban myth. He idn't make a reactor but her certainly made a seriously hot house. (pun intended)
I don't believe a single word of this story (apart from perhaps the fact that he managed to obtain some quantities of radioactive material.. but how much, this is also questionable).
If he really did what they said he did, he should have ended in hospital with acute symptoms of radiation sickness, together with all of his neighbours.

However, the story can be read as good SF :-)
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  #33  
Old 05-08-2011, 04:06 PM
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As an example of the improbablity of this

Americium

the isotope 242m1Am (half-life 141 years) has the largest cross sections for absorption of thermal neutrons (5,700 barns),that results in a small critical mass for a sustained nuclear chain reaction.

The critical mass for a bare 242m1Am sphere is about 9–14 kg.

It can be lowered to 3–5 kg with a metal reflector and should become even smaller with a water reflector.

Such small critical mass is favourable for portable nuclear weapons, but those based on 242m1Am are not known yet, probably because of its scarcity and high price.

The critical masses of two other readily available isotopes, 241Am and 243Am, are relatively high – 57.6 to 75.6 kg for 241Am and 209 kg for 243Am.[86] Scarcity and high price yet hinder application of americium as a nuclear fuel in nuclear reactors.

Americium is the only synthetic element to have found its way into the household, where one common type of smoke detector uses 241Am in the form of americium dioxide as its source of ionizing radiation.

This isotope is preferred against 226Ra because it emits 5 times more alpha particles and relatively little of harmful γ-radiation.

The amount of Americium in a typical new smoke detector is 1 microcurie (37 kBq) or 0.28 microgram.

So to obtain sufficient 241 Am for a critical mass you would require at least 30,000,000,000 smoke detectors at a rough guess.
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  #34  
Old 05-08-2011, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry B View Post
I don't think David Hahn is an urban myth.
Otto Hahn certainly isn't and neither is Lise Meitner. The stuff was still legal back then

Cheers
Steffen.
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  #35  
Old 05-08-2011, 06:38 PM
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Why not read a little about what he actually did first before discounting it.

He used Tritium as a moderator.

He didnt build a nuclear bomb and he didnt build a fully functioning nuclear reactor, but he did make a nuclear device that was producing a radioactive output as a result of nuclear reactions/transformations.

Random House (largest English book publisher in the world) still has it listed for sale and continues to list it as a True Story.
http://www.randomhouse.com/book/1673...en-silverstein

If it were not true I would have thought that it would have been uncovered as a fabrication over all these years, the book is chock full of otherwise very easily disputable facts and the names of all parties and occupations involved.
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  #36  
Old 05-08-2011, 06:51 PM
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Quite a good review is here
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/books/8232/8232books.html
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