Lets say what we really mean RESPECTFULLY

[bartman (Bart)]

I agree with your point Leon.
Trevor - like what your mum said...... however how are we to improve if not told the mistakes we make?

As Al said " don't take it serious",
but Al ....some people do.....when voting- I think.
I believe People who vote ( not talking about the people who have entered) tend to go for the classical Professional type of photo.

It is a competition after all, and that's what sticks in ones mind.
As it is a competition, people have some expectations.

I believe that the 'Challenge Theme' is an important criteria ( even though it is not a rule).
Interpretation of the theme is the thing that makes the comp interesting.
But if the picture is random (as nice as it may be )......ohhh nooo here I go ...please accept my apologies ......the pic from Chris (Omaroo) is not (I believe)of a seascape. It is a very nice pic - of a dude fishing ....with a wave about to wipe him out....mmmmmm....that is the focal point....not a seascape.......
Getting back to Leon's point,
criticizing somebody's pic is a hard thing to do , complementing is easier ........
Bartman

[Alchemy (Clive)]

Originally Posted by leon

if we feel negative about a submission than we should say so, and give a reason why, once again Respectfully

So therefore we must comment objectively, Respectfully


Leon

Going to disagree with you Leon ..... My experience is people often get offended when critique is given, followed by a rush of : what would you know etc: as their ego is publicly bruised. Unfortunately typed words never express what would be with the same words spoken face to face, the intent, the nuances, plus the ability to quickly affirm the intent if it's mistaken.
One reads a typed comment and often interprets it according to their feelings at the time.

No ; for me if I don't like an image I won't comment.

Also particularly with astro images, I no longer comment on the basic objects m42 etc, as I feel people should stretch their imagination past doing the same old same old endless repeats ( that's an honest opinion )

Cheers Clive

[hotspur (Chris)]

Originally Posted by bartman

I agree with your point Leon.
Trevor - like what your mum said...... however how are we to improve if not told the mistakes we make?

As Al said " don't take it serious",
but Al ....some people do.....when voting- I think.
I believe People who vote ( not talking about the people who have entered) tend to go for the classical Professional type of photo.

It is a competition after all, and that's what sticks in ones mind.
As it is a competition, people have some expectations.

I believe that the 'Challenge Theme' is an important criteria ( even though it is not a rule).
Interpretation of the theme is the thing that makes the comp interesting.
But if the picture is random (as nice as it may be )......ohhh nooo here I go ...please accept my apologies ......the pic from Chris (Omaroo) is not (I believe)of a seascape. It is a very nice pic - of a dude fishing ....with a wave about to wipe him out....mmmmmm....that is the focal point....not a seascape.......
Getting back to Leon's point,
criticizing somebody's pic is a hard thing to do , complementing is easier ........
Bartman

?????????????
I feel this is too harsh a comment on 'Omaroo's image,Personally I feel its the best one there!I hardly notice the fisherman,I see a perfectly captured sea scene,I'll get brick bats for saying this.

[leon]

Clive I do have to agree, typed words have no emotion, and feelings, and although one means well it can be taken totally out of context.

And for that subject of Astro repeats,that is true as well, to a point, unless the same object repeated each year when available;e is an exercise of improvement on their learning in the imaging game.

I was the same and ended up doing the same ones each year, although my skills did improve and i could see a vast difference in my work.

Leon

[TrevorW]

Everything is subjective what pleases one person does not always please another

on a UK site I see lots of photo's where guys have spent hours upon hours collecting data producing a nice target image but showing it without working on background gradients/noise

yet I don't denegrate an image because of it knowing that LP in the UK is a real problem as is the weather although I might suggest background improvements

even viewing the same JPG image across several sites it can appear different on each site

No in saying "if I haven't got something nice to say I don't say it" in fact says it all without offending IMO (although like someone else commented I sometimes get a bit tired of seeing the same old targets, so even then you can't take on face value that I've not said something as being derogatory likewise I may have missed an image as I spread my time across several sites)

and one must remember imaging is like art and everything else in life, beauty is in the eye of the beholder

and at the end of the day we are in the imaging game for fun few of us if any make a living from it

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Been away out in the country so haven't seen this thread until recently, too much to read through.
I think being too honest can be detrimental to beginners and being put off too much too early in their attempts. So all that is needed is constructive criticism instead of saying whether they are good or not.

Some people have not been imaging very long so it is not expected to be very good but in respect to their capabilities it is very well done.

On another issue, I don't really post many of my images any more because I don't get many constructive criticisms at all. Actually most of my images may have most 1 or 2 comments so not really learning anything.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Thanks Chris...LOL! Well, I thought that it looked like a sea scene at the time....

[adman (Adam)]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

I found Jase one of my biggest helpers over the years.
When I was pushing the DSO boundaries with a modified ToUcam he used to encourage me by saying I was doing well with my imaging 'BUT now try this', 'or try that'.

It's a fine line between hurtful or helpful criticism, and a personal 'dislike' comment.

Spot on Ken - I have always found that when you offer any critique of someones work, no matter what the field, it is always best to start with something positive, or something you like about it, and then lead into what you don't like, or what you think can be improved, and then maybe some helpful suggestions. In short :

1. Say what you like about it
2. say what you don't like about it
3. offer suggestions / tips

no matter how thick peoples skins appear to be, we are all human, and all have egos. I think it pays to tread a little gently. Doubly so in a non-professional setting.

Adam

[dannat (Daniel)]

Constructive criticism is how you learn, there are other words than the image is ****..I don't like the color in the Kate..too blue to my eyes, but I agree with Leon a thread with 12 great shots doesn't help either the photographer or others who are reading trying to learn about colour, composition, cropping, object placement etc

[asimov (John)]

Just for the record, it only took like 3 years for "might be a tad over processed Asi" comments to really sink in. Get more vicious!

[bartman (Bart)]

Chris and Chris,
Sorry , I didn't mean for it to come over as 'harsh'.
As I said it is a nice shot.
I must agree it is a sea scene.
I'll shut up now.
Leon, saying what we really mean is not a good option respectfully or not....
Thats what I have learned from this post

I'M sure I'LL get Brickbats for this.......
Bartman

[Gem (Grant)]

Leon,
I think every photo is going to be dependent on WHO is taking and with WHAT they are taking it. The longer you are on this forum, the better you will personally know the ability of different photographers. Some people are just starting out and want to share their photos - even if they do not stack up to the other photos. Some people have been imaging a while and need some criticism to improve. Some people have a beautiful scope, latest camera, a computing degree, a permanent mount and years of experience and should be taking better photos!
Personally, I know the skies and have years of observing experience, but don't know a thing about imaging and "stacking", etc... if something looks nicer than the eyepiece it seems good to me! Maybe, I will be more critical once I know the person and their ability and equipment better.

Good thread.

[leon]

You have made a good point Grant, and this is not really about the beginners and the learning members, it is more about the top end photographers who seem to overlook the learners and beginners and continually congratulate each other, and really don't pay a lot of attention to much else.

I am not going to say anymore on this subject as it keeps changing all the time, I just hope I have not offended anyone as that was never the intention.

Maybe we can just move on, and continue posting all work from all members with comments that relate to the individuals work.

Leon