Freedom of Speech

[mozzie (Peter)]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

Oh dear I am terribly offended by that attrocious picture. I think it should be removed and the person who posted it should be banned from posting for the next 10 seconds.

Barry

or they should never be allowed to post that head again

[casstony]

I think it's important to remember that the moderators are not having a go at anyone when they remove a post - they see a mass of posts and remove a small number without regard to the author - thus we shouldn't feel personally offended if a post is removed.

I feel safe here making a post that may be pushing the TOS, knowing that the post will be removed rather than my membership being revoked.

[miki63au]

Hm, a dangerous subject. Half of my life was under a communist regime,
so I very sensitive of censorship. Even to escape from the dictatorship was illegal. My political view is formed accordingly. Anything red is a no-no in my book. And yes I'm a (A)GW "sceptic" . (the 'A' in the AGW!!)
I follow reason, and not dogma/faith. If I see fraud, I name it. Back in the coms. they would bash my had for that. I stand by my principals.

However, nobody ask me to join in. It was MY choice.
It is a private enterprise of Mike, and he set the rules. I have a choice.
I accept.
(Except when I pissed and political/AGW issues come up..... sorry).

Off course I do take the political/AGW debate to elsewhere.

Mick.

ps: sorry for a less than perfect English, the spell check not picking up my accent

[snowyskiesau]

Like Barry, I'm a moderator on another forum and have found that no matter what action you take, or fail to take, you can't win. It all comes down to following the guidelines/rules as laid down by the forum owner both as a user and as a moderator.

I must say, I've never come across a offensive posting on IIS, I have on the other hand, come across a lot of posts that I didn't undestand

I'd like to see a message go to the poster advising them of the reason for the deletion, even if it's just a standard TOS type message. Is there an option is vBulletin to do this?

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by RB

If we ourselves find that we've overstepped the mark we moderate our own posts too, you may not see it, but we do.

If, on the other hand, you see one of our posts which you feel is offensive then all you need to do is report the post as well, simple.

Yep, and the majority of us appreciate the moderation. As in many situations, there are conflicting points of view and they can, and should, involve open discussion but there are also people who like to stir the pot for the so called "fun" they get out of it.

Moderators are the umpires in this group and the basic reality is that we either abide by their decision, No argument (in public at least...), or leave.

Rom

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by avandonk

Every now and again I push the rules until they break. I will not go away after I have done this, just retreat 'til next time.

I do not feel at all personally aggrieved just disapointed that my 'extreme' views cannot be tolerated by the general community by rules we all agree to on joining.

If you feel that the rules are wrong then change them from within the organisation.

Until then I will still participate and if I transgress so be it.

Bert

Bravo Bert, very well put. I think many relate to this and plead guilty I do. What is important is the chill pill and that this site remains well moderated to
keep us all here for the reasons IIS was established.

PeterM.

[marki]

Originally Posted by el_draco

As in many situations, there are conflicting points of view and they can, and should, involve open discussion but there are also people who like to stir the pot for the so called "fun" they get out of it.


Rom

Yep especially when it comes to people pushing the smelly old AGW barrow . Mods need to apply the TOS to that one everytime it comes up, usually very quickly.

Mark

[marki]

Originally Posted by RB

With all due respect Mark, I think you know exactly what is acceptable and what is not, and if it's something we join in on, it's usually not to the level of contravening the TOS.
If we ourselves find that we've overstepped the mark we moderate our own posts too, you may not see it, but we do.

If, on the other hand, you see one of our posts which you feel is offensive then all you need to do is report the post as well, simple.

Andrew I am pretty sure most people who post and know they may have taken it a little too far self moderate. I know I certainly do and will go back and change or delete my post and I have seen many others do the same when I have been on here late at night. Just for the record I have no problem with the moderation on this site and in general think you guys do it very well. As many have suggested a simple notification of removal and reason for such action to the poster affected would be very helpful and in general would diffuse situations such as these. If I stuff up both accidently or purposely I would like to know why so I could avoid repeating it in the future.

Cheers

Mark

[RB (Andrew)]

Thank you everyone for understanding our position and for your replies.
I think discussions like this are helpful now and then to clarify things and create a better understanding all around.

As moderators we do send PMs in cases where we feel we really do need to explain our actions.
Sometimes it involves a lot of our personal time and we sometimes feel we may not need to send a PM on simple matters.
Please forgive us if that is the case, but we do try to inform when it's important.

Anyway we hope people don't take things too personally because as Casstony said we see and read a mass of posts each day and it's not like we go after certain individuals on purpose.

Thanks again everyone and may we all have a Happy New Year and clear skies.

Best Regards
Andrew

[TrevorW]

In conclusion I have no qualms about a post being deleted if I feel I truly had breached site TOS, a joke is a joke, it was more witty than crude.

As a member of 4 years not 3 as prev stated with over 4000 posts I felt it would have been IMO polite to advise me why the offending post was deleted via a PM.

However in this case I did not receive that courtesy and when asking why albiet in another post that was quickly squashed without fair hearing.

I felt offended that I was not treated in a manner a long standing contributing forum member should have been, a courtesy I would give to another in a similar situation

I no doubt will return to this site when my I come back down off my high horse, it jsut may take a little while, as I truly enjoy the banter we as a community share.

PS: I am also a moderator, image judge, and newsletter editor on a couple of other sites.

[Octane (Humayun)]

Trevor,

A private message to any moderator online at the time would have sorted the situation out, methinks!

H

[TrevorW]

H, remember I'm not the one that deleted the post, I'm the victim not the other way around, common courtesy goes a long way to ensure we stay within the rules

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

common courtesy goes a long way to ensure we stay within the rules

- that was my beef too.
I still read the posts, but I no longer want to join in

[Octane (Humayun)]

But, if you're constantly spamming, is a moderator required to explain each and every removed post? What a time consuming job.

H

[Ephemeral (John)]

[QUOTE=Octane;673976]But, if you're constantly spamming, is a moderator required to explain each and every removed post? What a time consuming job.

I read Trevor's comments personally I couldn't see anything that implied he was spamming or had been so how did you come to this conclusion or where you referring to someone else???

[Octane (Humayun)]

John,

The latter.

H

[iceman (Mike)]

There has certainly been occurrences where myself or other moderators have neglected to PM the poster when deleting a thread or post. Sometimes it's been because it was obvious, or maybe we just forgot, or were in a hurry and didn't have time.

In any case, I agree that it's a common courtesy that we should get back in the habit of ensuring we do on a regular basis. I've asked the moderators to remember to PM the poster when they delete a thread or post. And I'll do the same.

I apologise for when this hasn't happened.

Also remember, starting new threads that ask "Why was my thread/post deleted" *always* get deleted. If you have any questions about why action by a moderator was taken, PM a moderator or PM me.

[asimov (John)]

Well, I left here a few years ago because I had it figured there was no 'freedom of speech' as such.

As it turns out, there IS freedom of speech, it's just how you word things that count. Hindsight is 100% correct.

It's all a learning experience.

As an ex mod from another forum, I can safely say it is a very tough job. You can't please everyone 100% of the time, so don't bother trying. Your going to ruffle a few feathers no matter how hard you try to please.

One has to abide by every forums TOS.

I have no idea if Trevors thread/post broke the TOS here or not, I never saw it & I'm not even going to speculate on it.

Good luck to ya Trevor, if you decide to call it quits - OR stay, the choice is yours entirely

[GrahamL]

Message boards have lots of gaps in the communication process
in which a lot of meaning can get lost or missunderstood or not acknowlaged imo

Yes , I see your point Trev , a little courtesy would likely
help understand whats wrong , without having to ask .

It would also be most helpfull for those of us with mid life dementia
in that we know to keep looking for that insightfull and witty post thats somehow become lost on the board somewhere

[multiweb (Marc)]

I only post on IIS becaused I feel it's sheltered from all the cybercrap. I like the community, the photos, advices and all astro related stuff and the tight moderation here. Personally I think it's just right. There needs to be a set of rules and boundaries. They won't suit everybody but it's up to us to adapt. I don't find them restrictive at all. They're in place for a reason. Stop escalation. Moderation here is pretty swift and accurate. No complaints about it. I've been posting on both sides: breaking the rules or winging about something I didn't like and they always took action in a fair way. Occasionaly people get peed and leave then come back and it's all back to normal. So I reckon if they come back IIS is not such a bad place to be.