And you thought you had bad debt

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

Originally Posted by Kal

Actually I am suprised myself at how high Japans debt per GDP is on that list (2nd, behind only Zimbabwe! )

That is an interesting measure but then look at how much of that debt is financed in country and waht is held by "others"...In the case of Japan while the debt is large per GDP almost all of it is held within Japan. As long as Japan "holds" it's own debt it is sustainable...

[Moon (James)]

The per capita figures on the U.S. National Debt Clock are quite alarming. I think this is the best way to come to grips with such unimaginably large national numbers.

With regard to the Zeitgeist conspiracy theory movie, although entertaining, let me just say I hope the Debt Clock has a more robust scientific basis. In particular, I find the implications at 52:58 and 53:28 rather distasteful.

James

[michaellxv (Michael)]

Who exactly do all these countries borrow from?

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

Originally Posted by michaellxv

Who exactly do all these countries borrow from?

That information is publically available...here in the USA well over half (guessing 60%) is owned within the USA in a variety of places...

The top fifteen are (in "round numbers" $USD B = billion T= trillion) according to the US Treasury (and other US Government sources)

Taiwan 130 B
Hong Kong 138 B
Caribbean Banks 159 B
Brazil 165 B
OPEC Countries 227 B (many of the oil producing countries)
US Insurance companies 261 B
US Commercial banks 274 B
UK 448 B
US States and local governments 535 B
US Pensions 644 B
US Mutual Funds 649 B
Japan 837 B
China 868 B
USA People (savings and estates) 1.266 T
US Government 5.345 T

[Octane (Humayun)]

James,

Yeah, that's why I mentioned it's a bit "out there". It is quite conspiracy theorist.

Still, there's some good stuff in the financial system bit which is eye-opening.

H

Originally Posted by Moon

The per capita figures on the U.S. National Debt Clock are quite alarming. I think this is the best way to come to grips with such unimaginably large national numbers.

With regard to the Zeitgeist conspiracy theory movie, although entertaining, let me just say I hope the Debt Clock has a more robust scientific basis. In particular, I find the implications at 52:58 and 53:28 rather distasteful.

James

[joe_smith]

Originally Posted by michaellxv

Who exactly do all these countries borrow from?

What most people dont know about the real owners of the worlds money system, the banks you think are owned by the governments are run by a private organisation, The Australian reserve bank, the US federal reserve are not government owned or controlled. These people create money from thin air and the lend it to governments at interest. We end up paying for it with our taxes. films like Zeitgest and my favourite one Kymatica are more then just "another conspiracy theory" if you look into it more you see they are more truth then theory.

I recommend you watch Kymatica its better then Zeitgest and if you like Avatar you can relate to one part of it. It also contains some graphic images and information about war, but the truth of what happens in the world is easier for us to ignore, and not deal with, as its not affecting me is it. It goes into a lot of stuff you wont believe, money, nature, man, governments, corporations, stuff they put in our water and food and the media, but believe me you can research yourself and its true. I like the quote in the movie "to see what is really happening in the world, you have to look at it as if you have just got here"

We have the know how and the people to do the unimaginable but the only thing holding us back is our money system that's corrupted by greed. The richest 1% of people in the world own 40% of the planet's wealth. We cant go to Mars because of lack of skills we cant go because of lack of $$$ people are staving to death not because of lack of food, but because of lack of $$$, war is not to benefit mankind its to make more $$$ with all those trillions of dollars being thrown around most of it went to the 1%'s anyway, the other 99% have to pay it back with hard labour, taxes and interest payments. its a mad, mad world we live in

[Moon (James)]

films like Zeitgest and my favourite one Kymatica are more then just "another conspiracy theory" if you look into it more you see they are more truth then theory.

I just watched it and I and I assure you, it contains some facts and also a lot of conspiracy theory rubbish that gets perpetuated by uncritical minds.
Yes the financial system had serious flaws, but a utopian world without money and distribution centres where we can all take as much as we want is pure bunkum.
I had to laugh when I saw the store on the Venus Project website.
Guess what? You have to pay!
James

[joe_smith]

I just watched it

Which one Zeitgest or Kymatica ?

For me the purpose of the Kymatica movie is to get people to look at the world in a different way. Not with what the media tells us its like. He dose say at the beginning "don't follow me, don't believe me, go find out for yourself.”

a utopian world without money and distribution centres where we can all take as much as we want is pure bunkum

For us in good old safe oz, it is, but if you were starving with no shelter in a war torn place watching your people die you might think differently.

it contains some facts and also a lot of conspiracy theory rubbish that gets perpetuated by uncritical minds

there's 2 sides to every story one says its right one says its wrong its how we deal with that issue that makes us great not who is right or who is wrong. We all have different world views as numerous as there are stars in the universe. Our world view is driven by our own needs, desires and what we are wiling or able to accept. There are many lies out there that are truths and many truths that are lies.

Guess what? You have to pay!

Till the day you die, brother