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  #21  
Old 09-12-2010, 10:07 PM
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gregbradley
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I see noone had placed a bid for the AP206. A telling sign of the US economic state.

There was another for sale a month or so ago that didn't sell for US$45,000. Maybe the market is "saturated" with AP206 scopes!

Greg.
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2010, 11:04 PM
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Peter Ward
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Figure/strehl aspects of various scopes being equal, seeing gets you most nights.....

At sea level, larger aperture often simply means more data in less time.

The pro's don't site 10 metre class scopes at serious altitude because they like mountain air

Last edited by Peter Ward; 10-12-2010 at 12:04 AM. Reason: typo
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  #23  
Old 10-12-2010, 12:45 AM
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Kal (Andrew)
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On a sidenote, that little 4" Alvin Clark refractor is going alright - 23 bids currently at $8100 with 11 days left
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  #24  
Old 10-12-2010, 01:12 AM
rally
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Greg,

You said " . . . as AP are simply the best bar none and the manufacturer all others are compared to."

Was that a typo - didn't you mean ". . . bar one . . ."

Looking at the colour correction of the Takahashi triplets - TOA series and the FSQ Petzval, compared to AP scopes, I think they have set the current bar height.
The image contrast is enhanced because these refractors can focus from IR to UV - a wider range of wavelengths and more accurately.

But I am not really wanting to get into the "this is better than that" argument, just to say that there are definitely more players than solely AP !

And as stated by PW the seeing, tracking, guiding and other errors are likely to be larger and more variable than the differences in chromatic aberration and as such not easily specifically measureable/detectable in the average amateurs images.

So the reality is for us mere mortals at sea level ! there are much bigger fish to fry than just OTA optical design and manufactured quality, but it is still good to eliminate what you can to reduce the total noise in the system.

Cheers

Rally
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2010, 09:11 AM
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strongmanmike (Michael)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rally View Post
Greg,

You said " . . . as AP are simply the best bar none and the manufacturer all others are compared to."

Was that a typo - didn't you mean ". . . bar one . . ."

Looking at the colour correction of the Takahashi triplets - TOA series and the FSQ Petzval, compared to AP scopes, I think they have set the current bar height.

Rally
Ah you know how it is Rally, us AP owners are like those American Mom's who put their little girls in those beauty pagaents...ours is our lill darlin no matter what and we cry and get angry if she don't win.

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  #26  
Old 16-12-2010, 05:20 PM
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gregbradley
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Ah yes the fabulous Tak versus AP competition.

They are both wonderful scopes but having owned both I would have to give the edge to AP.

AP makes the incredible 155TCC corrector which is a reducer and flattener in one and corrected even for 16803 chips. I know Tak has a super reducer but I am not sure it has the same standard here.

AP focusers are superior to Tak ones. Tak is now playing catchup with its focusers as the number of complaints roll in about flexure with FSQ106ED's and heavy camera trains. It can't handle it without flex. I see a TOA150B with a heavier focuser to address this so they are handling it slowly.

FSQ106ED has no competitor really in the AP stable except for the 130 and its reducers. But that's a different price and availability and aperture. The FSQ106ED must be Taks biggest seller. I wonder why they don't bring out an FSQ130 or even an FSQ150. Now that would be unique and they could exploit their edge in Petsvals.

AP now has a Honders Riccardi astrograph which is unique and I suppose eventually the Mak astrograph Roland has made.

AP threads are infinitely superior to Tak ones which routiinely jam and are too fine/ too frictioned after their black coatings.

Having said all that I do love Tak scopes and have had several that I really like.

Of course the main advantage of Tak over AP is you can actually get a new one fairly easily!

I don't know that is true that Tak has the edge over AP on correction? You think? AP does .99 strehl on its optics. I doubt Tak does. Its lenses are made by subcontractors not by them.

Another aspect of AP scopes is the fact that Roland images himself. I have not seen images posted by Mr Takahashi - I have by Roland. This means he really knows what is needed and it shows in the attention to detail in his scopes. They are immensely practical and superbly thought out and engineered. For example the corrected illuminated circle from an AP155 or 140 with a flattener is around 100mm!!!! That provides a lot of future use when super large chips come out. They will still work when other scopes will vignette.

TOA series is an incredible imaging scope though. I have often been amazed at the resolution Marcus achieves with his TOA150. An amazing scope. Is AP155 a lot better? Probably not. You'd need a TEC180 to be better there hehehehe.

Greg.
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  #27  
Old 16-12-2010, 10:47 PM
Hans Tucker (Hans)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
The FSQ106ED must be Taks biggest seller. I wonder why they don't bring out an FSQ130 or even an FSQ150. Now that would be unique and they could exploit their edge in Petsvals.
I would think that the complex design (obtaining precise colour correction plus flat field) of the Petzvel would make a FSQ130 or FSQ150 cost prohibative. The largest Petzvel APO that I have come across was made by Televue and it was a 5.5" (140mm) and only a handful were made. Now Televue only offer the NP-101 & NP-127 in this design.

If I were to choose a AP refractor I would go with a AP-140..one day I'll own one..maybe I should place the order now given the long lead time.
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