MEADE 12 inch LX200 OTA.........Bintel reckons.....

[TheAstroGuy (Shane Ross)]

Another good call,

a solid tripod or pier makes a big difference,also spending nigh on 800 bucks on a set of Parallax rings many moons ago makes the Rig a darn sight sturdier.


I am definately on the EQ6 rocks bandwagon when you consider what the next mount is in comparison and price it's a no brainer, although boy would i love a TITAN or id settle for a Paramount heehee

[danielsun]

Originally Posted by robz

Thanks for all the replies.

I can only say that I am totally gob struck and extremely dissapointed with this news as I was lead to believe otherwise before I purchased the mount.

As far as I'm concerned, information was that a 12 inch newtonian was easily within it's capacity and that a 12 inch SCT would be fine.

I was also informed that Skywatcher included the heavy duty dovetail head as well as the standard size in the latest version of the mount (as I have) due to the fact that they had become aware that the mount could in fact hold large scopes................which is apparently B.S. ????

Deeply upset at this guys.

I was hoping that when funds eventually permit, I would treat myself to something special and of reasonably large aperture to place on my dream mount...................it seems that yet again, I have made an expensive mistake and ended up with something that still has not left my lounge room.
I have powered it up and watch it go through it's motions with the hand controller and was so excited to eventually get it in use and working for real.
That will not happen........I do not want a small refractor(or anything along those lines) regardless of quality, if that's all that this thing can handle in a moderate breeze outside

The mount is for sale everyone.
There is no original packing, but it is brand new and has not been used.

P.M. me if you are interested. I would prefer local pick up here in Perth W.A. and will throw in my 8 inch newtonian (that requires a new focusser and extension tube).

Regards,
Rob.

Rob, or you could keep the mount and just buy a 8"newt or an ED80 with a cheap 70mm refractor as a guide scope and there you have a complete imaging set up.

[robz (Robert)]

Well gents....................I had the 8 inch newtonian on the mount last night.

Vibrations were easily seen with a slight breeze at 250X on Jupiter.

Touch the focusser and all hell breaks loose.

If I need to start building piers,buying or modifying focussers etc. to steady a pissy 8 inch newtonian, then I have truly wasted my money..........this is not for me.

Shane,...........I would like to return the mount.....even at a loss despite the fact that it's virtually brand new and unused.

I'm not happy with it,will never be happy with it and will never be able to afford a Titan or AP1200 as a mount..........that's ridiculous.

If I had known that it would come to this and was aware of the mount's limitations,and the reality of massive mount requirements, I would never had gone through with the purchase.

[sejanus (Gavin)]

did you have it balanced properly?

I had a 11" Celestron on a EQ6 and whilst I never imaged with it, it was not anything like "all hell breaking loose" when I focussed.

The eq6 is a damn good mount for the $$

[robz (Robert)]

Originally Posted by sejanus

did you have it balanced properly?

I had a 11" Celestron on a EQ6 and whilst I never imaged with it, it was not anything like "all hell breaking loose" when I focussed.

The eq6 is a damn good mount for the $$

Yes, I know how to balance a scope on GEM.

Glad you were happy with your EQ6 and Celestron.

The Celestron had a dovetail mount attached to it I presume................and the focussing was not done by a rack and pinion or crayford type?

My 8 inch has very solid tube rings bolted to a vixen style dovetail to suit the EQ6 head and has a standard rack focusser.

Please note everyone............I am NOT imaging, ..........just viewing.

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by robz

Well gents....................I had the 8 inch newtonian on the mount last night.

Vibrations were easily seen with a slight breeze at 250X on Jupiter.

Touch the focusser and all hell breaks loose.

If I need to start building piers,buying or modifying focussers etc. to steady a pissy 8 inch newtonian, then I have truly wasted my money..........this is not for me.

Shane,...........I would like to return the mount.....even at a loss despite the fact that it's virtually brand new and unused.

I'm not happy with it,will never be happy with it and will never be able to afford a Titan or AP1200 as a mount..........that's ridiculous.

If I had known that it would come to this and was aware of the mount's limitations,and the reality of massive mount requirements, I would never had gone through with the purchase.

um they all do that especially when you touch them to focus (unless you have a motorfocus. i think you are have your self believing these things are rock solid and dont move at all - not the case they do - it then comes down to how quickly the dampen out of the system. if the load is far to heavy they seesaw for a while but do steady down. wind is always a issue - you get used to that and even in a observatory you can get the occasional gust that is a problem. I think you are after a perfect mount and scope - doesn't exist (metaphorically speaking). high end mounts dampen out the jiggles really quickly. your mount should really be suited to the 8" and a guidescope - it is a staple "diet" for the mount for imaging. i use a 127mm refractor with 80mm guidescope on my G11 in a dome observatory and get the wobbles with a breeze. It really sound like you have jumped in without thinking about what you want to do and have no practical knowledge of how the mount is performing. I did when i expected my 12" SCT to go on a eq6 - but i soon learnt. its called trail and error and working through the issues - one step at a time. Its taken me 5 years to be able to confidently stuff up an imaging run so you should be able to do it in a shorter time than me - i was and still am a bit thick out in the field i use a eq6 and a heqpro5, wind is always a problem, pardon me

you have the perfect setup with the newt and a guidescope - but that is only my opinion. You can always put up a temporary tarp for a wind break - it may help?

[sejanus (Gavin)]

Originally Posted by robz

Yes, I know how to balance a scope on GEM.

Glad you were happy with your EQ6 and Celestron.

The Celestron had a dovetail mount attached to it I presume................and the focussing was not done by a rack and pinion or crayford type?

My 8 inch has very solid tube rings bolted to a vixen style dovetail to suit the EQ6 head and has a standard rack focusser.

Yes it was a dovetail mount - I mean it did vibrate a bit when you touch it, but I wouldn't say all hell broke loose. The vibrations prob took roughly 0.8-1.5secs to settle down.

[TheAstroGuy (Shane Ross)]

Rob,

As most of the folk have already said i think your expecting miracles.
It is commonly agreed the mount is fantastic for the price and the nearest mount to it is almost 4K away.

David is spot on, you almost have the perfect rig!!

Brendan Mitchell from WA took photo of the year in the ASTROFEST comp with a 10" Newtonian and an EQ6, so the mount can perform.
People have have taken NASA APOD pictures with this mount.

Your current rings will introduce flex and wobble more so than if you had a pair of Parallax rings. I would not consider the current rings you have to be solid.

If viewing is all your doing i keep telling you a Mak180 or the Saxon 8" will be solid as a rock on this mount, i use high power with my mak and it is completely solid even to the touch she sits tight.

Regards

Shane

[Alchemy (Clive)]

Originally Posted by robz

Please note everyone............I am NOT imaging, ..........just viewing.

There is the key information needed. Given you are ONLY viewing I don't see a problem with the 12 inch scope. Most of the caveats here have been related to imaging. I can't see an issue with it at all under these circumstances. You don't need to guide or have extra scopes on board, I hope this eases your pain somewhat.

[robz (Robert)]

O.k then guys, let's see if I have this right?

The Meade OTA weighs in at 16.4kg.
The following MAXIMUM EQ6 weight load bearing capacities(minus counterweights?) have been quoted here and on various websites including Skywatcher :

25kg, 20kg, 18kg

So, for planetary viewing at occasional high power (depending on seeing and/or weather), the MEADE 12 INCH LX2OO OTA with a star diagonal with a chunky eyepeice and maybe a small findersope or Telrad, mounted on the EQ6 PRO should be fine?

Am I correct in the assuming this ?

Cheers,

Rob.

[Alchemy (Clive)]

The capacity relates to the scope and it's immediate accesories.
If skywatcher says you can load 18 kilos on it and you want to put less.... Go for it.

You can overload all mounts to some degree, being a visual only setup, you don't have the problems that have been focused on generally in your thread.

All scopes when viewing at high powers will be subject to atmospheric turbulence etc. I would suggest if it's windy just find a sheltered spot to minimize any wind.

[marki]

A lot of the weight limits imposed have to do with the type of scope you are using. They try to make a general limit to accommadate most scope types which is why you read so many conflicting numbers (that and the failure to include counter weights in the value). Newtonians are big long tubes that makes it awkward for a mount in that the weight is distributed a long way from the fulcrum. SCT's are much more compact and are easier on the mount. The only time I have seen a direct measurement given is with my Vixen SXD where the manual states the maximum load is 15kg at 24.5 cm from the fulcrum even though the US distributer is claiming about a 50lb capacity. If you are in doubt that the EQ6 will carry the 12" meade, why not consider the 10" which the EQ6 will carry with ease. Once you bog your way through all the technish and BS associated with these scopes (both manufacturer and users) and just look through the eye piece you will find there is very little difference (especially in the city) between these two scopes and the lighter 10" is much easier to handle and store. For me the 10" is the sweet spot in the meade range offering good aperture and reasonable portability.

Mark

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Originally Posted by TheAstroGuy

Another good call,

a solid tripod or pier makes a big difference,also spending nigh on 800 bucks on a set of Parallax rings many moons ago makes the Rig a darn sight sturdier.


I am definately on the EQ6 rocks bandwagon when you consider what the next mount is in comparison and price it's a no brainer, although boy would i love a TITAN or id settle for a Paramount heehee

Shane sorry to pop your bubble but my astro society in NZ Whangarei astro.. has a Titan , brought as a replacement for the Celestron CGE mount under our C14 ,,, the C14 is an awsome scope but . the CGE Well ? more trouble than it was worth the computer would not hold home. ( the mechanics are very good , it's the computer , dont like down under ?) Reverse ?
So we saved and worked for years and got a "Titan" sos... mate same old sh!t . Something about the southern hemesphere ? More trouble than it's worth and no after sales service both and told to SEND IT BACK .. at our expense to USA sos ,, from either .. Bintel ? Thanks . so bro be very careful before you spend your hard earned money , at least Orion will pay postage to here on any product they sell ,,,EQ6? HEQ5 same .
Brian.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Originally Posted by robz

Well gents....................I had the 8 inch newtonian on the mount last night.

Vibrations were easily seen with a slight breeze at 250X on Jupiter.

Touch the focusser and all hell breaks loose.

If I need to start building piers,buying or modifying focussers etc. to steady a pissy 8 inch newtonian, then I have truly wasted my money..........this is not for me.

Shane,...........I would like to return the mount.....even at a loss despite the fact that it's virtually brand new and unused.

I'm not happy with it,will never be happy with it and will never be able to afford a Titan or AP1200 as a mount..........that's ridiculous.

If I had known that it would come to this and was aware of the mount's limitations,and the reality of massive mount requirements, I would never had gone through with the purchase.

Ouch ! pissy 200mm . Snob you ?
As you should know the mounts are very good
you start digging that pier hole ? ok then your pissy little 200mm will be happy
started digging yet?
Happy digging.
Brian .

[RobF (Rob)]

Robz, there's not too many sub $10,000 (even 20,000?) rigs that won't wobble when you bump them or adjust the focuser. That's why people like motorised focusers. Remember you're magnifying vibrations >100 times when viewing.

Your EQ6 will give you many years of enjoyment for visual and astrophotography, but you have to build the foundations wide and gradually build up experience and skill. If you just jump in the deep end with a big heavy long focal length scope you'll just topple over (figuratively) and get frustrated. You've got to learn polar alignment, balance, tracking and all sorts of other skills depending on what you do. Some nights its fun, other nights its easier to hit your head against a brick wall.

BTW, I personally have a relatively inexpensive rig - pissy 8" newt on the smaller HEQ5pro, and I find it exceptional value for money for visual (depending on seeing and eyepieces) AND photographic. It doesn't worry me if I have to wait a sec or two for a steady view, and I enjoy the look on some people's faces when they see the pics I can get from a $300 chinese OTA.

Have you looked through a 12" SCT versus other scopes? It really is a very large heavy scope. If you're going to go that big you really HAVE to know if your a visual or photographic person. I dont' think you'd find too many deep sky photographers using 12" SCTs. Planetary video or visual definitely.

One last thought - the scope you use and enjoy is the one that's not too much hassle to get out and up, then dismantle at 2am in the cold with minimal fuss. Sounds like it might be time to get out to a local meeting of like minds and discuss with people why they have the gear they have.

Good luck with it all,
Rob

[danielsun]

Rob, I used to have an 8" F6 on my set up but now have an 8"F5 (200mm shorter slightly sturdier than the f6) with an ED80 and a 70mm guide scope which is close to the max limit on the EQ6 including cameras etc and use it mainly for imaging but have the occasional visual through the 8" and there is always some slight wobbles after focus but settles quickly. Do you have your couterweights slightly east heavy and check you don't have too much backlash in the worm that you may have to adjust out. These may have an effect with a breeze.

Cheers Daniel.

[TheAstroGuy (Shane Ross)]

Originally Posted by brian nordstrom

Shane sorry to pop your bubble but my astro society in NZ Whangarei astro.. has a Titan , brought as a replacement for the Celestron CGE mount under our C14 ,,, the C14 is an awsome scope but . the CGE Well ? more trouble than it was worth the computer would not hold home. ( the mechanics are very good , it's the computer , dont like down under ?) Reverse ?
So we saved and worked for years and got a "Titan" sos... mate same old sh!t . Something about the southern hemesphere ? More trouble than it's worth and no after sales service both and told to SEND IT BACK .. at our expense to USA sos ,, from either .. Bintel ? Thanks . so bro be very careful before you spend your hard earned money , at least Orion will pay postage to here on any product they sell ,,,EQ6? HEQ5 same .
Brian.

WhoaH nelly thanks for the heads up, Ok ParamountME

A friend of mine has just possibly deposited on a 28" Planewave and a massive Alt AZ mount many many many thousands (hundreds even) now surely this would stop the wobbles

[ngcles]

Hi Robz,

Originally Posted by robz

So, for planetary viewing at occasional high power (depending on seeing and/or weather), the MEADE 12 INCH LX2OO OTA with a star diagonal with a chunky eyepeice and maybe a small findersope or Telrad, mounted on the EQ6 PRO should be fine?

Am I correct in the assuming this ?

Cheers,

Rob.

From my experience with this mount, for visual observing I think you will be fine mass-wise -- so I'd answer that your assumption is correct.

As others have already tentatively suggested, I'd venture that your expectations as to the degree of "stability" this mount provides may be a substantial part of the problem -- ie you are expecting too much.

Virtually any mount will show some vibrations and wobble when the 'scope is touched, bumped, breathed on or focused etc. If you are prepared to spend 10x what the EQ6 cost new, you will probably halve the wiggly tendency. If vibrations etc damp out in a second or so after touching etc, then that is the most you can reasonably expect for a mount without spending substantial five-figure sums. What surface are you using it on? This can have an effect. Are you using vibration suppressing pads under the feet of the mount (cheap and work pretty well)?

The EQ6 really is an excellent mount for the money and is very hard to beat in the price range. Remember, moderate or high magnifications greatly magnify even the most minute movements in the mount/'scope. For visual use, I think it will carry a 12" Schmidt-Cassegrainian with a heavy ep and usual bibs and bobs quite acceptably (in my books anyway).

Imaging is a different bucket of fish. Others have already offered the correct advice here (but I'll re-iterate here for completeness) -- this weight when you add a set of rings, guidescope, imaging device etc etc etc would be very close to the engineering design limit of 20kg, if not over. The long focal length the 12" Schmidt-Cassegrainian has also complicates things very considerably. The EQ6 is a capable if not good imaging mount (outstanding for the price), but I'd be whacking no more than about 12-odd kg on it all up -- preferably less than that. As Houghy said, it will perform in a perfectly acceptable fashion with a fast (say f/4.5) 8" Newtonian, & guidescope etc etc for imaging.


Best,

Les D

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Doctor? lawyer?
Us average Boilermakers well Paramount when I win the Lotto Astro Guy .
Me and my 6 inch on little brother Heq5 and sturdy German made wooden legs AT 300x on jupiter easy , the mounts are good .
Google" EQ6 wooden replacement legs"
the German ones are the best made of Black Oak from the black forest nice ,like steel but dense .
Brian.

[robz (Robert)]

Thanks everyone................I understand now..............man!...........wha t a ride!
When funds eventually permit(probably early next year), I will be looking at a 10 inch or even a 12 inch Meade SCT for planetary viewing.

May also try some planetary video work with a small and light d.i.y. ccd cam., but will have to see what happens in that department.

Hey Shane,................you know some very rich people out there, ................they make me sick!!!

Regards,
Rob.