Conspiracy 9/11 In Plane Site

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by beren

I have troubles understanding a person who either is described as a freedom fighter or a terrorist threatening/killing innocent people and even more so a democratically elected government covertly staging mass murder on its own citizens to create a chance for a pre emptive strike/war on a assumed aggressor ....doesnt make sense .

It's not the first time! and 'no' it doesn't make sense!!

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

I must admit to being very suspect of the conspiracy theories.
*What Happened to the Alleged Hi Jackers ?
*What happened to the Missing planes & people ?
But I am open to the possibility !
After all, the war on Iraq is justified on a lie !

[mick pinner]

The "coming to power" of Osama Bin Laden was in there eyes a god send to the neo- conservative government of George Bush as they needed someone to focus on as the voice of terrorism.

Peak oil is a term used to describe the point where oil reserves drop below the 50% point of reserves and therefore begin to decline, this happened according to many former oil company employees in 2000.

With the majority of oil reserves that are available to America being held in the gulf countries they need a reason for a large military force to be in that area, what better excuse than to be liberating a country from a dictatorship, the supposed terror attack on America gave them the reason to go to the middle east and Sadam Hussein gave them the reason to stay not to save lraq but to be ready to have control on whatever oil is left once levels become critical, the only way the United States hangs on to world power is through military force and that relies on the most powerful commodity in the world OIL.

l have no doubt who the real terrorists are.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Well said Mick.

And our own Aussie Puppet plays along to the Puppetmaster and joins in! They all do. And you can't have a puppet show without an Audience thanks to CNN being in the right places at the right time all the time. Funny about that!

[Dennis]

I did not see the documentary but a few observations and initial questions spring to mind as follows:

I work at an air force base where we also get day visitors. When airplanes visit, it is often quite surprising how different people describe each airplane. Some people say that they saw a 2 engine airplane land when in fact a 4 engine platform landed. There is often quite a significant variation in the reported colour schemes and markings of airplanes as described by different people, along with differing descriptions of the external configuration of what they were carrying.

How much explosive stuff would it take to pack these buildings and then wire them? Didn’t some terror group pack a van with explosives in the late 90’s and try to demolish one of the towers?

Air traffic movements appear to be a highly regulated global activity. There are countless people, systems and operational processes and procedures that govern air traffic movements. It seems hard to believe that these could be manipulated to cause airplanes to “disappear”?

I am aware of triboelectric charging causing (unexpected) explosions in fuel tanks so there may be other “reasons” for seeing explosions prior to impact?

A technique used by the media to discredit someone or something when there is no actual evidence, is to state “Some people say that…blah blah blah” and yes, whilst some people might say that they saw or heard things, given the enormous emotional and mental trauma experienced, how reliable is their recall? How many were there? What expertise did they have?

To orchestrate these alleged conspiracy events, ranging from military aircraft being used, the disappearance of the commercial flights, the laying of explosives, the fooling of air traffic control systems and people, etc., does seem somewhat far fetched, requiring the involvement of so many? If such cataclysmic and public events could be so carefully planned and executed in secrecy, with no dress rehearsals, the people in charge must be extraordinary planners, project managers and psychologists?

The above comments are made in complete ignorance of the contents of the program and do not address the other points posted by IIS members. This is such a challenging topic that warrants careful investigation. The consequences of truth in some or all of the points the program appears to have raised are quite dire to say the least.

Cheers

Dennis

[rochler]

Another conspiracy theory. Wow. Personally, I think there was a second terrorist hiding in the grassy knoll....

[acropolite (Phil)]

I'm not sure that I buy the conspiracy theory, there are too many assumptions made and too much anecdotal evidence. Ask 5 different people for an account of an event and you will probably get 5 different answers. I saw a program refuting those very same theories, equally convincing. One thing is for sure, corruption in governments is rife, and not just in the US, and as h0ughy said the US government has had a field day. On a similar subject did any one see the excellent 3 part series , "The Corporation" on SBS. The program exposed corporate greed and corruption and showed just how far some private enterprise corporations will go to maintain their profits.

[netwolf]

To the credit of Australian Leaders, though i am not in total agreement with them. Australia does need the protection offered by America though it comes at a price. An austrlian leader must put the protection and needs of his citizens before all others. Its a tough job and i do not belive the present opposition would have done anything diffrent.

Mike you are right there.
Power and control have always been the dominating factors behind politics and conflicts. And oil is a commodity that dominates the world today, the control of this commodity has long been an US forigh agenda.

But other factors are also there, that other documentaires post 9/11 have touched on, linking the power houses in american politics and the current usual suspects of terrorism. Howeve in the past these usual suspects were freinds against the old USSR and Iran, when those were considered threats.

I recall an Australian Fedral minister was called to account for stating post 9/11 that 9/11 was America's own fault. I belive the minister was from WA and as i recall he was made to appologise. I am not saying what he said is completly true, but I think America's foreigh policy has created many enmies to its intrests in foreigh affairs. Also its CIA guidlines i belive indicate they may only operate outside US soil, so if they are US citizens working for US intrests on foreign soil what does it make them? Fredom fighters, soldiers, terrorsits?? Who judges the CIA and other such agency's?


Notice how everyone is saying "Conspiracy Theory" not Conspiracy... I belve this was the point the doucmentary was trying to make, that we always assoiciate theory not fact to a consipiracy.

Beren you are absolutely right.
There is no justifaction for murder of innocent people under any guise. I belive the term for it is Collateral Damage.. I recall hearing that statement to describe what hapnned to the people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It is a cold word, reflecting inhuman atititdudes to life.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

No, didn't see that one Phil.

Originally Posted by Dennis

I work at an air force base where we also get day visitors. When airplanes visit, it is often quite surprising how different people describe each airplane. Some people say that they saw a 2 engine airplane land when in fact a 4 engine platform landed. There is often quite a significant variation in the reported colour schemes and markings of airplanes as described by different people, along with differing descriptions of the external configuration of what they were carrying.

It's all on Video Dennis. No need for observers to 'try and remember details'.

I can see where you are coming from though. Many can jump to conclusions (some want to) that there is a conspiracy monster behind every government tree, but the program showed evidence which is very hard to deny. Some of that evidence very damning! I am suprised it was allowed to be aired. When the program first started I thought "here we go, another Paranoidal conspiracy lot of nonsense', but as I watched, I was shocked! And I am very skeptical.

Regardless whether it was conspiracy or not, nothing will be done about it.

[netwolf]

I think we can do something about it indirectly, we can teach our kids the same good values we were taught so the can stand vigil after us. A country's action does fall on its citizens to, we must continue to teach the value of life to our kids. And i belive open discussion like this is also something we can do about it.

[Dennis]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

No, didn't see that one Phil.

It's all on Video Dennis. No need for observers to 'try and remember details'.

Ken

Now that is ironic coming from you, the archetypal, creative manipulator of images on IIS, and that is a complement by the way

I have also used a lot of image processing techniques so I try to remain healthily skeptical about believing what I see on video.

I am also wary of the use of selective “irrefutable” data points to “prove” a story when there remain other major difficulties or obstacles within that story.

Generally, it seems we humans are trusting people as most of us live our lives being decent citizens who do not set out each day to manipulate people, win power over them, and tell lies to prove a point, etc. So generally, we assume others are the same as us. However, sometimes the people behind these big stories are skillful manipulators who wouldn’t bat an eyelid when they pull the wool over our eyes to achieve their own goals.

We can be too trusting and therefore gullible, such that we can be manipulated into believing an intricately constructed story, which may have several truths scattered amongst its bits and pieces, yet the overall story may itself be “incorrect” in that it may be a sub-set of the overall truth, an incorrect interpretation of the truth, a deliberate misrepresentation of the truth or just plain wrong.

Cheers

Dennis

[rumples riot]

Didn't see the show but here is a web site relating to it. It has mini vids and good detail.

http://www.911inplanesite.com/

When this event happened I heard about it the next day. The first thing that occurred to me was "they been asking for this for forty years and now someone has finally done it". Then after looking at the footage I was very suspect about the way the buildings imploded. Working in the building industry I have seen a few implosions and a few explosions. Then it occurred to me several months later that it could have been a setup. In fact I think that I have mentioned this here before. Every decade since World War II the US economy has been bolstered by a war of varying degrees. Korea, Vietnam, War of drugs, Africa (many countries), Bosnia, 1st Gulf War, Afganistan and now Iraq. Next possibles Korea, Iran, and anyone who threatens Israel. War is critical to the US economic policy.

I think that we are unknowingly witnesses to the new reich. Those who fought to stop this ideology are now so right wing that they are repeating history. I really hope I am wrong, but I bet some Jews in Germany were thinking the same thing in 1933 and got out while they could, the rest could not and did not want to believe the rumours.

Anyway, pity I missed the show. Would love to have seen it.

[rumples riot]

Oh BTW, anyone for Weapons of Mass Destruction. That says it all. Lying *******s got caught there, no one has done anything about that.

[netwolf]

Dennis,
You are right about thes documentaries, such as they are formed on subset of data. Possibly picked to make there point. As there would have been many recordings of peoples imressions of the events as thy hapnned but not all are shown. They selected some and so did CNN when they did there live broadcasts.

Trust is indeed a human weekness but it is also a strength. But with the meida, you must alwyas add a grain of salt. While watching this i was constantly thinking of the people with there missing posters of loved ones. And thought so where are they? The host's only answer was basical that 'we did not say they died' ask the people who did? But i think that was a bit much in the face of the loss pepole have suffered.

Regards
Netwolf

[netwolf]

One other point made during that i still am trying to find information is that why every one claims it was unexpected. The TV show The lonegunan highlighted a very similar situation were a plane was being remotely controlled to hit the twin towers. But everyone commneted that no one expted people to fly planes into building why not... perhaps it was to fictional to belive.

rumples, about WMD i dont think people care because everyone thinks Sadam is bad (which to my mind no doubt he is). But you are right, that lie has remained without much media questions on it. Usualy the media goes on and on and on about such things..

[lost_in_space]

I missed the show but after the feedback I picked up on today I will risk the wrath of the copyright holder by watching a copy a friend recorded .

Originally Posted by mick pinner

%<----
Peak oil is a term used to describe the point where oil reserves drop below the 50% point of reserves and therefore begin to decline, this happened according to many former oil company employees in 2000.
%<----more
l have no doubt who the real terrorists are.

I have no doubt either.
I believe peak oil is the term used when the water pumped into the well to force the oil out exceeds the amount of oil returned. Yes this happened about 2K.

Now...
What happened to Tesla?
What benefit does DRM bring to the consumer?
Why is Micro$oft _still_ a monopoly? (The EU is heading in the right direction here, but $ will win)
Why did Oz sign the free trade agreement with the US, and who is benefiting from it? (Clue: It's US, not us).
Why is patent and copyright reform desperately needed but will never happen?
Why are we unarmed? (It's not Martyn Bryants fault, he was just the excuse). Just to make it clear, I despise what he did.
Why are our constitutional rights being trampled into the mud?
Why instill FUD against anything that threatens the pigopolists?
Why do politicians kowtow to big business instead of doing their job and looking after our interests as our ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES?
Why is the US allowed to get away with Guantanamo Bay?
Why are drug companies allowed to get away with "evergreening"?
When was the last time a politician contributed anything beneficial to society instead of their own ego?
Why do political "donations" from big business give those businesses more rights than voters?

No wonder I am studying the cosmos looking for something better!!!

I haven't even got started yet. I've still got the recording industry, movie industry, software industry, our legal vs justice system, support for using heroin vs quiting nicotine and lots more to vent, but it's time to get off my high horse before I am accused of being a free thinker and locked up without due cause or recourse to basic human rights. Worse still I could even be branded as un-american and "disappeared" forever!
Grrrr...
I think I think too much.

I feel better now, but the sky is cloudy tonight so look out, I might be back. There is still a couple of shots of The Glenlivet left.

[rumples riot]

Netwolf, be that as it may that Saddam was bad man, that is no reason for waging aggressive war on a sovereign state. Rule number one in international law is that no country will wage aggressive war against another. The Americans executed many Nazi's for doing the same thing. Not to mention those that committed war crimes. Do you see the hypocracy? Waging aggressive war was used as a charge against Malosovick (sorry spelling) in Bosnia. A country may only attack another country after it has been in fact attacked by another country. That is one of the fundemental precepts of international law, of which the US is a signatory and chiefly the author. Premptive strikes are strictly forbidden. The Japanese were tried for the same crimes and executed for it. Funny how things have changed. Look through the mud to see the roots.

Its easy to say that the doco people were just manipulating information, but don't you think that happens everyday. Who decides what is the new's and how it should be shown. Not to mention the garbage they are fed. Believe half of what you see and non of what you hear!!

I really started a poo fight opening this thread, but as they say in the classics, "occasionally the excreta hits the air circulating device". Someone must be accountable if there is in fact a cover up. I for one would not trust Bush, or his bum licking mate Howard as far as I could throw them, too many hidden agendas in my opinion. These blokes have more movements than a "Swiss watch".

[togo54 (Tom)]

I think I'll watch the reruns of Alien Autopsy again. What??? It wasn't real? I can see where I could start a real pi$$in contest here but I won't. Just a couple of things pi$$es me off tho.
lost_in_space...in regards to your constitutional rights. Can you own pretty much any type of gun you want? I can. You can thank a Queen and not a President for this particular lack of priviledge. Also the Micr$soft waste of breath. Ever hear of Linux?. OK...nuff said...I can see the flames already...

[slice of heaven]

Originally Posted by togo54

I think I'll watch the reruns of Alien Autopsy again. What??? It wasn't real?

Who told you that

The moon landing was a hoax too

Another show to make money about other peoples losses.

The words ...Sucked In... come to my mind