Tak mounts

[gregbradley]

I am not really trying to bash Vixen as they generally offer very good value for money. The Sphinx may have since been fixed up but when I had one it was bugged. I had to do fixes to it to correct Vixen's errors. It was a step up from a Meade Alt Az mount but it needed some work. Also at the time I was brand new to autoguiding so that added to the frustration. Autoguiding got added later to the mount and cost extra even though it was originally marketed as doing autoguiding.

I could not get the autoguiding to work but then I was using a ToUcam for guiding.

The axes were too stiff out of the factory and needed correction to loosen them. The Starbook is very bright and dazzles your night vision. It also attracts bugs like crazy in summer. It had a very limited database as well so only the well known objects were available (may since have been improved).

Mechanically the mount looked the part but for the price (AUD$3600) I think a G11 would leave it in the dust. It was also only capable of a light payload. It could not handle the light Tak FS152 for example. I'd say at a guess it would be limited to about a 110mm refractor for payload and probably nothing by Tak (which tend to be quite solid) beyond an FSQ.

I agree, I'd go an AP over an EM400 for the more versatile electronics and PEC. But Tak mounts are still very very nice and I love how easy they are to setup and use. They are particularly good if you know how to use the polar scope which is a skill for southern hemisphere. I never mastered it.

Greg.

Originally Posted by netwolf

Greg this maybe a bit OT, but what do you find lacking int he Sphinx. Is it the Starbook that is the main issue or something else mechanical? From what I have read and heard Vixen's are usually very good mecahnically speaking and are often overlooked because of the starbook. How does it compare in your experince mechanically to Tak or G11's?

If I had the money I think I would go the AP900 over the EM400. IF only you could use the AP GTO ont the TAK. But another thought occurs to me can you retrofit the Tak with a diffrent Goto system? I think it uses servo motors and I use my Gemini Servo motors with a Sitech controller. Could the Tak servo's be wired up to a GeminiII or Sitech or AP GTO? I know Parallax Instruments mounts come with AP GTO. And I think even MI250 had the option for AP GTO. I know there is at leastwas one person on the yahoo groups for Stiech that converted his old AP non goto mount to Sitech.

Is the Tak motor and encoder wiriing intergrated to the controller box internaly or is it a external modular connection like the G11 Gemini setup?

Regards
Fahim

[issdaol (Phil)]

Originally Posted by netwolf

Is the Tak motor and encoder wiriing intergrated to the controller box internaly or is it a external modular connection like the G11 Gemini setup?

Regards
Fahim

Hi Fahim,

The EM400 has the complete drive system and encoders built into the mount casing. It comes in 4 pieces: tripod head, mount counter weight shaft (with 2 x 8kg counterweights) and a relatively basic manual hand controller. On the bottom of the mount casing are ports to plug in the power, manual hand controller, Autoguider and a PC/Laptop.

The fact that everything is built into the mount casing does not make the EM400 an easily "customisable" unit unless you are inclined to pull it appart and make changes yourself (which will void the Tak Warranty). The Losmandy and AP mounts (and others) may offer more flexibility of configuration and so may be more suitable to someone that is after a more dynamically customisable rig.

I think all the mounts mentioned have their positive and negative aspects but these very depending on the users requirements and preferences. Generally they are all great mounts.

We should also remember that the particular models are not a static design. I now know of 3 different variations of the Tak EM400. Obviously Takahashi and other manufacturers improve their models over time to provide enhancements or remove bugs. I am sure that this is true of all the other good mount manufacturers.

To make a correct judgment on each of these mounts you would need to track down someone that has specifically used them and has hopefully used the latest or close to latest release version of that model.

For me I got the latest brand new EM400 at a great price due to negotiation and a favourable AUD/YEN position. It has performed flawlessly for me and I find the build quality excellent. I don't really miss the PEC function at the moment as I am doing more visual work and not much imaging at all. Also I know that there is very cost effective software for both I-Phone and PC/Laptop that provides mount modelling, n-star alignment and advanced visual GOTO.

Cheers

[beren]

Phil the extra unmarked port on the new EM-400 models have you heard or is it written in the manual what it may be plus do they still run on 24v ? Sorry Gavin for the deviation.


Seen on the main Japanese Tak site there is a announcement for a upgrade on the polar scopes for the NJP/JPZ to extend the usability to 2050.

[marki]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

I am not really trying to bash Vixen as they generally offer very good value for money. The Sphinx may have since been fixed up but when I had one it was bugged. I had to do fixes to it to correct Vixen's errors. It was a step up from a Meade Alt Az mount but it needed some work. Also at the time I was brand new to autoguiding so that added to the frustration. Autoguiding got added later to the mount and cost extra even though it was originally marketed as doing autoguiding.

I could not get the autoguiding to work but then I was using a ToUcam for guiding.

The axes were too stiff out of the factory and needed correction to loosen them. The Starbook is very bright and dazzles your night vision. It also attracts bugs like crazy in summer. It had a very limited database as well so only the well known objects were available (may since have been improved).

Mechanically the mount looked the part but for the price (AUD$3600) I think a G11 would leave it in the dust. It was also only capable of a light payload. It could not handle the light Tak FS152 for example. I'd say at a guess it would be limited to about a 110mm refractor for payload and probably nothing by Tak (which tend to be quite solid) beyond an FSQ.


Greg.

Hi Greg

I own both sphinx mounts, the SXW (the type you had??) and the SXD. They may look similar but are two very different mounts. The SXW has stiff axes because it does not have bearings on either the dec or RA axes (I have pulled mine apart) nor does it have bearings on the worms. Mine does have autoguiding, perm Pec etc etc. I have managed to take some nice pics with this mount. The SXD, however, has bearings in all axes as well as the worms. This along with more powerful (but noisier) drive motors and more precise worm gear/worm wheel has significantly increased payload and accuracy of the mount and it is a breeze to use for AP. The PE on these mounts has been measured at +5/-7 which is fair and I have no problems with 15min exposures when autoguiding. The latest software update has been specially written for the southern hemisphere and fixes all the bugs the previous version had in tracking in the south. Sure they are not in the same league as the Tak or Paramount mounts but are very light and portable which is why I bought it. They certainly are no junk by any measure of the stick.

Cheers

Mark

[issdaol (Phil)]

Originally Posted by beren

Phil the extra unmarked port on the new EM-400 models have you heard or is it written in the manual what it may be plus do they still run on 24v ? Sorry Gavin for the deviation.


Seen on the main Japanese Tak site there is a announcement for a upgrade on the polar scopes for the NJP/JPZ to extend the usability to 2050.

Hi Gavin,

24v was one of the EM400 variations One variation had separate 12v and 24v inputs for normal speed (12v) and high speed (24v) modes.

The newer EM400's (past 12-16 months) only have a 12v port.

Interestingly enough the latest EM400 still has the Normal and High speed modes. They must ramp up the voltage internally now depending on what mode you select. I havent done any hands on elecrical for quite a while but with todays components this is pretty easy to do on the required scale and also drive it by software.

As for the spare port it is referenced by takahashi as an "upgrade port". I have not yet been able to track down what this means. In my version the panel actually has a Mini DIN-4 (SVH-S Style) port there rather than the blanked out panel.

Cheers

[RickS (Rick)]

Astro Solutions has a hand controller for Tak mounts under development: http://www.astrosolutionsllc.com/Ast.../Products.html. They are shipping in November according to Optcorp: http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=14989

Cheers,
Rick.

[Tandum (Robin)]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

I doubt the gears are plastic. I have had my NJP mount end up guiding to the stops of the mount and nothing broke. The worm and gears on the motor are metal, as you can see them. Internally in the motor I can't say. But my understanding was the motors that drive the mount are hand wound by Tak themselves and are not an off the shelf item.

That's right mate, I make this stuff up as I go along. I even found and translated a random Japanese web site showing stepper motors with plastic gears from a random manufacturer. Give me a break. Mine is a Temma 2 Jr, with a crook gearbox motor, I looked it up, others may be different, who knows. I was warned not to post that info, stupid me.

[netwolf]

There was a thread on CN about a modification to the Sphinx mount to allow use of a Celestron Nexstar handcontroller. That should improve the useability of it quiet a bit. Not sure what it costs though.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Mark. Its good they fixed it up. It certainly looked like an excellent mount and had good fit and finish but the finer parts you mention obviously let it down at the time.


Greg.


I own both sphinx mounts, the SXW (the type you had??) and the SXD. They may look similar but are two very different mounts. The SXW has stiff axes because it does not have bearings on either the dec or RA axes (I have pulled mine apart) nor does it have bearings on the worms. Mine does have autoguiding, perm Pec etc etc. I have managed to take some nice pics with this mount. The SXD, however, has bearings in all axes as well as the worms. This along with more powerful (but noisier) drive motors and more precise worm gear/worm wheel has significantly increased payload and accuracy of the mount and it is a breeze to use for AP. The PE on these mounts has been measured at +5/-7 which is fair and I have no problems with 15min exposures when autoguiding. The latest software update has been specially written for the southern hemisphere and fixes all the bugs the previous version had in tracking in the south. Sure they are not in the same league as the Tak or Paramount mounts but are very light and portable which is why I bought it. They certainly are no junk by any measure of the stick.

Cheers

Mark[/QUOTE]

[gregbradley]

Originally Posted by Tandum

That's right mate, I make this stuff up as I go along. I even found and translated a random Japanese web site showing stepper motors with plastic gears from a random manufacturer. Give me a break. Mine is a Temma 2 Jr, with a crook gearbox motor, I looked it up, others may be different, who knows. I was warned not to post that info, stupid me.

Sorry I was not trying to invalidate your post. You did not mention you had pulled yours apart and saw the gears, I thought you were speculating. I remember a post on the Tak group once saying the motors were handwound. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean no plastic reduction gears in the motors. I know my NJP does not strip out if it
the mount hits the stops if left too long. I did it once by accident - no damage.

I suppose there is also an argument that some plastic gears may be superior to metal as the can be more accurate.

I asked the question on the Tak Group, only one response so far - an old Em2 that had metal reduction gears. Not a very large sample. If plastic gears are generally used I imagine Tak or its dealers would withhold that.

Greg.