Nub equipment help! - Page 2

hellaflush (Adam) · #21 21-09-2010, 01:35 PM

Ahh eBay how i <3 thee....

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Celestron-943...ht_1726wt_1137

Once again cheaper in the states

The question is... is this the right kinda kit for me?

Liz · #22 21-09-2010, 01:57 PM

Hey Adam, congrats on the scope!!!! hopefully it will last you awhile before you get aperture fever and want a 10" .... like I did.

Its probably a good idea to stick with your 10mm and 25mm ..... they are good EPS. Do some research, and look out for a cuple more down the track. The 10mm will give you some mag. 2.5mm will be too much mag, but a 5-6mm down the trsck will be good. The kit from US will prob cost a fortune to post, but if not, then looks a good kit in a nifty case.

The telrads are great, and is what I used on my 8" while I had it. The only problem with them is that you have to stick them on, so makes a mess of your scope, for when you want to sell it later on??

Many people use barlows, but I didnt for many years, and am still trying to remind myself that I have a nice one in my box of goodies.

My fav EPs are also widefield ones, as Tony says, Suzy has done bucket loads of research there.

Look at peoples signutures to see what kinda EPS they have, and you will find there are quite a few that are widely used, thus pretty good and popular.

Enjoy ....... and clear skies!!!

Benno85 (Ben) · #23 21-09-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellaflush

Ahh eBay how i <3 thee....

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Celestron-943...ht_1726wt_1137

Once again cheaper in the states

The question is... is this the right kinda kit for me?

Totally up to you mate, it's down to personal preferance really. Are you comfortable with basic navigation around the sky, or do you get Rigel confused with Regulus?

I'm not much more than a beginner myself, but for me I found it much more valuable to learn to find my way around with a Telrad or similar, knowing that I would never forget how to do it (kind of like riding a bike) and that that knowledge would be priceless. Later on when I upgrade to an equatorial mount I'll get one with go to capability as my main aim will be imaging (finding a target and sticking with it for the night).

Just my thoughts

Ben

hellaflush (Adam) · #24 21-09-2010, 02:49 PM

Heya Liz - thanks for the kind words

I got a little wrapped up last nite... looked at my iPad and realized it was 4am + condensation on the scope so thought I should call it a night...

Last night I was mainly hanging around the Orion constellation and spotted M42/M43... just a faint grey smudge with 4 distinct bright stars...

I have confirmation that my Telrad was shipped today and should be here next week from the states

The celestron kit has a good combination of filters, barlow and lenses... although no sites specify if they are wide or not? The postage from the states for that kit is 50 AUD so it still comes out about 40 cheaper than the 2nd hand kit for sale on these forums and also local sites/ebay sellers which want 280+ shipping (I will be saving a good 100+ here).

I guess my main question is what benefit do "wide" eyepieces that everyone is recommending have? How can you tell the difference when buying online between a wide and "normal" eyepiece? Do wide eyepieces hinder on clarity for a wider FOV?

Sorry for all the questions guys... ive got books and am googling my heart out however I really cannot find a clear answer on this topic...

Liz · #25 21-09-2010, 04:17 PM

Its a bit tricky as to whether you get the Celestron set - $50 postage is pretty good, so maybe worth it, then you have a good set in a case. Probably a good idea if you can afford it.

Down the track though, you may find you only use 2-3 EPs, your favourites.

Widefield EPS are great, as you peer through the EP, and there is a large area to see, and your eyes just travel round and round, wow!!

The Hyperions are good EPs, and have 68' FOV.
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

Naglers can have 82'
https://www.bintelshop.com.au/HTML/TVNaglers.html

Many others
http://www.frontieroptics.com.au/Wid...eyepieces.html

Other EPs have a smaller FOV, though these can be sharper, but many sit about the 60' give or take.

The almighty Ethos has 100', and most can only dream about those, as they are about ~ $600.

Am sure others will have their favourite widefields too.

hellaflush (Adam) · #26 21-09-2010, 04:39 PM

Ahh Liz you're so quick to come back and help

So from my understanding then there isn't a great if not very noticeable reduction in clarity by going to a wider FOV EP?

The celestron kit has 55' FOV across all of the EP's apart from the 32mm which has 44' FOV.

Only having the 25mm and 10mm which have a 52' FOV... I'm unsure if purchasing individual EP's with only a slightly better FOV is going to be a wise decision... at least with this kit, I have an opportunity to try all the different EP's down to a 4mm which still has a 55' FOV...

Also it has the 2x barlow and filter set...

Any last words on celestron EP quality and this overall package before I click buy?

http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?ProdID=271

Liz · #27 21-09-2010, 05:07 PM

Noone else has hopped in yet.

Re the Celestron set - filters and barlow, and EPs, its pretty good.

I havent looked through Celestron EPs, but would think they would be quite good quality. Why not, do it!! If you keep them in good condition, it will be very sellable waaay down the track as a set.

hellaflush (Adam) · #28 21-09-2010, 05:30 PM

Purchased

Now hopefully i get a break in the clouds again tonight and I can try to work out if it was M42 or M43 I saw last night...

Suzy · #29 21-09-2010, 06:05 PM

Hi Adam,
Don't buy yet - I haven't posted!!!

Apologies for not answering on this thread earlier. I would prefer you to do a bit more research first after I post. If I answered here tonight, are you able to press "click" tomorrow instead?

Kind regards,
Suzy.

Edit: Sorry I can't post now, but the reason is that I will be busy for the next few hours.

torana68 (Roger) · #30 21-09-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzy

Hi Adam,
Don't buy yet - I haven't posted!!!

Edit: Sorry I can't post now, but the reason is that I will be busy for the next few hours.

which TV show is it?

hellaflush (Adam) · #31 22-09-2010, 12:32 AM

Must be a long show

I am assuming something with Mr Travolta...

Rob_K · #32 22-09-2010, 01:31 AM

Congratulations Adam, the 8" dob will serve you well! I use Celestron eyepieces (X-Cel with 55 deg AFOV) and they give great views. I also have a 40mm Celestron eyepiece that gives cracker widefield views. But there's also nothing wrong with basic (= cheap) Plossl eyepieces.

Don't get too carried away with magnification though, because as you zoom up in magnification you lose light grasp. I find it's not so much the size of something your viewing but the quality of the view that really matters. You'll find a 25mm eyepiece will give you great views, but by all means use a 10mm for the brighter deep sky objects. For planets, you can zoom up all you like but unless the 'seeing' (atmospheric turbulence) is good you'll just end up with unfocusable blobs. Lower powers will suit nights of fair-bad seeing. Nights of excellent seeing are rare and precious, but when they occur.... WOW!

I see you're from Brisbane - light pollution can severely degrade views, so if you're in the burbs then a few trips out into the hinterland might be a good idea. Dark skies are everything! And the 8" is a good portable size too.

Good luck with it all!

Cheers -

Suzy · #33 22-09-2010, 02:15 AM

Hi Adam

Lots of questions, not sure where to start

The 10 & 25mm eyepieces that came with your scope will actually be the focal lengths you will use the most. Anything under 5mm will depend on the seeing conditions (eg jupiter will look blurry). I found 7mm to be the sweet spot on planets. Within 6mths you will come to understand those clouds very well. This link covers are lot of basics you should know starting out, and in particular towards the bottom the page, atmospheric conditions are explained. http://www.skyandtelescope.com/howto/visualobserving/

The Celestron kit does look good value. You will rarely use the colour filters (the blue will prob. be the most used). I got told they work best when planets are 60 deg up. Mars polar ice cap was visible thanks to the blue. They have their place in the kit even if used rarely. A nebula filter such as a UHC is a great all rounder. They make nebulas really pop out. Here is a link on nebula filters http://pages.sbcglobal.net/raycash/filters.htm Here is a link on coloured filters. http://sciastro.net/members/portia.p...use-of-filters Same with a barlow - I don't use it that often, but I'll reach for it on the odd times. By choice, I prefer less glass. The quality will be affected a tad with a barlow, because you are trying to transmit light through more glass. Hubby doesn't like the quality, where as it doesn't worry me too much. It's a trade off by getting the most value out of your eps.

Here is a link pretty much explaining just about everything you need to know about eps http://www.optcorp.com/pdf/TeleVue/An Eyepiece Primer.pdf
Here is a link to a thread of mine (it will give you a good idea of the complexities involved with eyepieces/fov issues in eps with dob users). A very educational thread. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ght=5mm+%24200

I have a Celestron ep, and it is of better quality than the ones that came with the scope. Wide field eps are a better choice for dob users in that you don't have to work the scope so hard in a small fov of 50deg. Also for example, I can view the whole Omega Centauri glob in my fov of 70deg at 10mm. You won't be able to do that with your 10mm ep. You will with your 25mm (but at lower mag). Don't worry, it will still look amazing. I can also use this ep to find things with, it's near impossible with 50deg fov.

Putting a 4mm (if seeing is good) on a dob can be frustrating as the planet only has to move a little before you have to nudge at the scope again (often losing it in the process and having to re-find). I find it difficult to observe a planet fully when I spend more time working the dob. You will get good at working the dob by the way. Wide fields therefore allow the planet to stay in the ep a lot longer. They also cost a lot more money because it take more glass and more groups to give you this view with maximum contrast and light transmission. A good widefield (Orion Stratus and Baader Hyperion, Meade, etc will cost between $200-$380. A premium will cost you around $260 for Panoptics at 19mm (Liz's favourite) up to $700. Second hand Pentax's & Televue Naglers generally sell around $350 ($500-700 new) with Vixen LVW's at around $250 ($330 new). Not many people will part with their Pentax's and Televue's. These eps are premium for a reason - they deliver the best contrast and sharpness across fov. Being widefield, this is more complicated to achieve, thereby costly. They knock a standard ep right out of the park! Once you have one in your possession, you will never go backwards, trust me. Pays to do your research on this eps, so that when they do become available on the second hand market, you will be ready to pounce straight away on what you want. That is how I've gotten mine. Patience.

Regarding viewing M42 (Orion). Use the 25mm. The 10mm won't do it justice as it will bring it up too close using too much of the fov in your ep. Nebs need a bit of distance to show up the contrast (wide field eps here again will give greater fov, so high mag is not an issue as you will see plenty of black sky surrounding the nebula). It's important that you get your eyes dark adapted for 15 -30(better) minutes before viewing nebulas. If you have to go inside, just put a patch over your observing eye or your hand. So as not to strain the unobserving eye, keep it open with your finger over the closed lid (or a patch). Within time, you will see a lot more detail. Your eyes will need to learn how to see the detail initially. The more you observe, the better at seeing your eyes will get. If you buy an observers book, this will help you look for details too as the book explains what to go looking for. A great observing book is Stephen O'Meara's "Messier Objects", I highly recommend it. It sells here i think for around $60-$70 dollars, but here you can get it for only $44 (free shipping) from the UK. I buy lots of books from here (so does Liz), there service is tops. http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book...essier-Objects

I agree 100% with what Ben said about learning the skies. Take it slow- you will learn quicker and won't seem so confusing. I find studying one or two constellations fairly well at a time helpful to me. The sky will always be there. And it is highly rewarding knowing your way around the skies. Soon the stars will feel like old friends when they return upon changing seasons.

Here is a link that will help you understanding what magnifications your scope can handle. Read beginner tips first, and then it will be a bit further down. http://www.seqas.org/
Adam, please remember, it isn't all about magnification. So don't get excited about using that 2.5mm ep that Liz was talking to you about. At the end of the day, it comes down to the size of your mirror (the larger the mirror - the more light - the more detail you will get). With an 8" scope you'll have a whole lot of fun.

Plan your observing sessions - this will make your viewing time a whole lot more enjoyable and rewarding. Know what you want to see, get maps ready, scribble notes what they are you are seeing, get a comfy chair (important), a red light torch and you're on your way. My most frustrating nights are when I don't have a session planned. Organisation really does help. And also you feel like you have achieved things when you get those targets. Some nights when things are hard to find or things don't go to plan, I just aim my scope at a couple of easy favourites, and that keeps me happy and then go inside. I don't feel like a complete failure then! Main thing is, is patience. Lots of patience. If you don't have it (I didn't), you will end up having it (I did).

All the best Adam, have great fun!

Kind regards,
Suzy.

Suzy · #34 22-09-2010, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellaflush

Must be a long show

I am assuming something with Mr Travolta...

Quote:

Originally Posted by torana68

which TV show is it?

Cheeky guys!

Had next doors cats to look after, dinner to cook & eat, my animals to feed, tv programme to watch (ok!)

(but it wasn't neighbours marathon this time), and this post which took forever.

Suzy · #35 22-09-2010, 02:33 AM

Too much typing,

My hands are numb I don't feel them anymore

I just noticed Rob's post, why can't I talk less and say everything short like he just did

hellaflush (Adam) · #36 22-09-2010, 11:57 PM

Suzy thank you so much for taking the time to answer all of my questions.

I have gone through all of your reference material and your entire post and it certainly contains a wealth of valuable information!

Due to a limited budget at this very moment I have chosen to stick with the Celestron kit to give myself an idea of what I can see with the 55' FOV with this kit...

As Lizy said, they most definitely are able to be sold to someonelse later on down the track (maybe sooner than later

) and I shouldn't really notice much of a difference in the wallet... once that is done I can then buy a good EP after I know what specifically suits my needs...

I am holding off on going out of my backyard to a good site to view until my Telrad and Celestron EP kit get here (hopefully late next week from the states) to really get a good hold of what can be seen in comparison to my Saxon EP's that came with the scope and the Celestron EP's...

I would be out tonight as its a perfect clear night in Adelaide however the Moon is pretty much at its brightest which isn't good for DSO viewing... so I have invested tonight into research

I really am hanging to see Andromeda and M78... theyre on my hitlist after I have another good look at M42/M43

Suzy · #37 23-09-2010, 01:19 AM

You're welcome Adam, glad to help.

Andromeda? You and I both!

hellaflush (Adam) · #38 23-09-2010, 02:37 AM

I can catch it as it reaches its peak around 1130 at night here in Adelaide... only problem is I am unsure if my fence will be obstructing the view as its so low... might be one for when i goto the Hills next week for a clearing

Liz · #39 23-09-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellaflush

I can catch it as it reaches its peak around 1130 at night here in Adelaide... only problem is I am unsure if my fence will be obstructing the view as its so low... might be one for when i goto the Hills next week for a clearing

Head up north to Townsville Adam .... I will show it to you easily from my front yard.

A magnificent sight!!

hellaflush (Adam) · #40 23-09-2010, 09:16 PM

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=ade...N&hl=en&tab=wl

Cya Saturday morning Liz