National Broadband Network

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

My 2c, it is the biggest suck of goverment money. I would rather see a roads, rail and water for my $50B

Too right and more health and education as well.

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

There are people without houses, without food, with medical care, but we will give every person a $3000 fibre connection with their weetbix.

Aren't the government good sales people, how many people really care about the homeless. People want to hear the above not the minority that dont have much of a voice or address.

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

Our goverment will be in surplus in 3 years, that just means that is when we can only start paying back the debt we have accummulated in the last 3 years. AND the NBN is not part of that debt, it is another $50B+ on top.

If that, I dont know of any government that could pay a national debt that quickly and such a high one as well, and now with a tight government a lot of policy are not going to make it to senate anyway.
NBN hasn't started to use the money yet so would explain why it is not covered. How many people realise this.

[Steffen]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

Our goverment will be in surplus in 3 years, that just means that is when we can only start paying back the debt we have accummulated in the last 3 years. AND the NBN is not part of that debt, it is another $50B+ on top.

But governments aren't supposed to have money, or sit on big piles of it. All the money they collect through taxes etc they're supposed to invest into the common good. Things like health care, aged care, education, infrastructure the economy needs to prosper in the future. A government with cash reserves isn't doing its job.

Cheers
Steffen.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by Steffen

But governments aren't supposed to have money, or sit on big piles of it. All the money they collect through taxes etc they're supposed to invest into the common good. Things like health care, aged care, education, infrastructure the economy needs to prosper in the future. A government with cash reserves isn't doing its job.

Cheers
Steffen.

HEAR HEAR

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Steffen

But governments aren't supposed to have money, or sit on big piles of it. All the money they collect through taxes etc they're supposed to invest into the common good. Things like health care, aged care, education, infrastructure the economy needs to prosper in the future. A government with cash reserves isn't doing its job.

Are you for real? ... ok let's move on... on another note , Telstra has probably spent billions of their own money laying the optic fibre network over the years. It certainly didn't happend overnight and they did put the money and effort into it. Good on them. Now they're waiting for a $40bn payout from the gvt [read us here - tax payers] so they can switch it on then bill us for its usage. Double wammy. Good on them.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

As far as I can calculate, the NBN would cost some $3000 per working tax paying person in Oz (given its $40Bn). Hell no!, sheesh, Im happy with ADSL2, ill watch TV on foxtel thanks, the speed otherwise is fine.

Country folks bang on about how much better and cheaper they have life generally, so they can pay more for the internet, stuff em.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Please stay on topic and avoid political commentation. The topic is about the validity of an email.

thanks

[NorthernLight (Max)]

The NBN is an initiative undertaken by the government and is not focused on maximising profits to shareholders within a fiscal year but providing infrastructure to a broader community (at least in theory). The bandwidth in metropolitan areas is compareable to any other country but is greatly reduced (if available) in the outskirts. Telstra hasn´t got much of an interest to provide capacities in the less populated areas as they aren´t responsible to the people but to their shareholders. Now, if anyone wants to develop an area the right infrastrcuture has to be there in the first place. No one settles anymore in a remote area without power or web access - even though space is way cheaper than closer to the metro areas. The notion that only a handful of outback folk hasn´t got broadband stems from a view that Australia is not changing over time- 5 to 7 hubs, the rest bush- but the demography is changing and more people will need more and affordable space including web access. This in return will see higher population and it will bring growth to these areas that will certainly result in higher tax revenues.
When the german government decided to drain money from all other german states to pump it into rural bavaria to build infrastructure during the 1960s nobody liked it. today bavaria is the second biggest industry hub and taxpayer in germany. national economics don´t pay by end of financial year it sometimes takes decades.

[acropolite (Phil)]

Cacheing allows much faster transfer than would otherwise be possible already.
I'd imagine that very only a very small proportion of the data transferred would actually travel from the originating point to the end user, the vast majority would come from cached sources.

As for the 25 Year lifespan, I couldn't find any confirmation using a quick google search, other than the blog that the original email was lifted from, sounds like an urban myth to me. I've worked with fibre for over 25 years I have never heard any mention of lifespan.

At the end of the day, uptake will be dependant on cost, if the cost is too high then uptake will be slow.

It's worth noting that Telstra's aim is to phase out copper completely your existing analog landline service will eventually become a VOIP add on to your broadband service whether you like it or not.

The fact that fibre is immune to moisture, corrosion and lightning are enough reasons to phase out copper. About the only thing that will damage fibre is rough handling, rabbits/rodents, and mechanical damage from excavators.

Fibre is so robust it will even withstand fire. When I worked for Telstra we had some vandalls set fire to a schoolbag in an enclosed area underneath where fibre was installed, the entire mechanical component of the fibre cable was melted and destroyed, the copper cable alongside failed as the insulation melted (that was the only way we knew there were network problems), the fibre however continued working despite around 10 metres of the sheath and buffer and loose tubes burning away, all that was left was the bare glass fibre still happily working.

[mbo (Pat and Kirk)]

The original letter was complete rubbish, just another right wingers rant against a labor party plan. It seems to have originated in a response on the Herald Suns website. The poster doesn't seem to realise that the plan is NOT about how to get a bit more web browsing speed for Joe and Jane in Woopwoop, it's about a national communications infrastructure upgrade on a similar scale to the original roll out of copper in the late 1800's. NorthernLight's previous posts have described the idea well.

Fibre optic cable has a maximum theoretical lifespan of 25 years when installed in conduit

Wrong - 25 to 30 years seems to often be used as a sort of amortizaion period for optical cables. The maximum life is yet to be determined because so much of it is still in the ground and working fine after more than 3 decades. See here and here.

You can not give every house 100Mbps. If you give several million households 100Mbps bandwidth, then you have exceeded the entire bandwidth of the whole internet

Another suspiciously non techie response from a supposed communications expert! What on earth is "the bandwidth of the whole internet" !
1. Our current ADSL network is similarly over subscribed, no network is designed to carry maximum traffic from all subscribers at the same time.
2. This is a national communications network, not just a web page feeder. I might get high speed between my office in Sydney and the branch in Adelaide, but not expect anything like that to somewhere in the USA
3. Infrastructure allows for growth, you don't build a freeway to just meet current demand, you allow for growth. When intercontinental bandwidth rises, the NBN will have the capacity to use it.

New DSL technologies will emerge

Yes , but so to will new optical technologies and the optical will blow them out of the water. Copper wire speed improvements have all come with a corresponding decrease in range. At the basic physical level, copper can't do what optical can do.

4G wireless ....

Same problems as copper only much worse, Light has many thousands of times the information carrying capacity of microwave radio.

Yet we are led to believe that the same people who cant build school halls ...etc

Just blatant political blathering, I'll ignore it. I don't care which government presides over a NBN, as long as they build a 'real' one, and like water and roads, I'd prefer it out of private hands.

Originally Posted by mswhin63

1Mbs to 3Mbs ... This is more than enough for anyone.

That sounds a lot like the (supposed) Bill Gates quote about 640K of RAM . I provide an IT service to businesses over a large geographical area and I love the prospect of a NBN. You have to realise the possibilities that it raises. Last week I drove 140 KM to a client so I could load 56 GB of data from a backup, wouldn't have needed to if I had a connection to them that was comparable to the network speed within my own office!
Think of what this means for business opportunities

Originally Posted by Bassnut

As far as I can calculate, the NBN would cost some $3000 per working tax paying person in Oz (given its $40Bn).

Yes it's expensive, major infrastructure is. The Snowy scheme cost todays equivalent of about 6 Billion. The population has grown about 4x
So it would be equivalent to around a 24 Billion dollar project now. In the ballpark?

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Country folks bang on about how much better and cheaper they have life generally, so they can pay more for the internet, stuff em.

... same back at ya, with a cherry on top

[richardda1st (Richard)]

Was dat Pat or Kirk, well said, as are all the replies supporting the NBN. Sticking to the point of the thread and using "TEK HEAD" facts.
Thanks

[Barrykgerdes]

I think it is time to lock this thread. It is getting to be too devisive. The point of the original post seems to be getting lost in political argument.
A NBN is a great idea when we can afford it but there are more pressing needs to solve first.

Barry

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by mbo

That sounds a lot like the (supposed) Bill Gates quote about 640K of RAM . I provide an IT service to businesses over a large geographical area and I love the prospect of a NBN. You have to realise the possibilities that it raises. Last week I drove 140 KM to a client so I could load 56 GB of data from a backup, wouldn't have needed to if I had a connection to them that was comparable to the network speed within my own office!
Think of what this means for business opportunities

Yeah should have said most home and small business users, better close the thread losing the plot.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

On the topic of whether we can afford a NBN I think we also need to consider the cost of not building it. It took us decades to pay off the Sydney Harbour Bridge but can you image Sydney without it? It generated much more wealth than it cost. If it is so necessary then we will just have to find the money.

[tornado33]

Well it will keep going now, as Julia will form government. When it coems down my street , if the prices are the same that the newly connected Tassie areas are paying, I will be signing up immediately.
Scott

[GrampianStars (Rob)]

there's a T3 Fibre Hub in the local town with NOBOBY on it it
It's been there nearly 5 years now.
I tried to get hooked up a few years back but was knocked back as I would be the only subscriber.
so I was offered a T1 Satalite hookup instead
Thanks Aussie Govt.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by GrampianStars

there's a T3 Fibre Hub in the local town with NOBOBY on it it
It's been there nearly 5 years now.
I tried to get hooked up a few years back but was knocked back as I would be the only subscriber.
so I was offered a T1 Satalite hookup instead
Thanks Aussie Govt.

I tried to get Fibre as well, but in all the cost was atronomical (pardon the pun), From when I remember I was quoted about $2000.00 per month and $500.00 connection fee. Would have received quite substantial speeds though.

Lets hope if it comes they will consider remote areas or areas that do not have ADSL2+ first. But knowing the way government works they will provide it to already established ADSL2+ customer and the rural and RIM community will have to wait until the system is squashed or run out of money. Satisfy the majority so they get the most votes.

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

Lets hope if it comes they will consider remote areas or areas that do not have ADSL2+ first. But knowing the way government works they will provide it to already established ADSL2+ customer and the rural and RIM community will have to wait until the system is squashed or run out of money. Satisfy the majority so they get the most votes.

Maybe not so Malcolm, I noticed the list of mainland towns to be connected first contained quite a few places that didn't have huge populations. The fibre to Geraldton is being laid as we speak, and i can't wait for it to get here. The Internet service ( or lack thereof) has been abysmal for the last 25 years.
There is an ulterior motive of course, the SKA Pathfinder needs the bandwidth to transmit the huge amounts of data, but should be plenty room left for us ordinary folks.
As for wireless, no thanks. I live in a caravan park and as yet have no landline (coming soon I hope) so I'm stuck with either a telstra dongle or the park wireless system (Internode). After 9pm its OK as all the kiddies and tourists have gone to bed, but earlier there's no hope of downloading a big file or listening to streaming audio or video. If its raining and windy, forget it and go to bed.
The analogy with the railways is a good one, they opened up the country, I reckon the NBN will do a similar thing with comms.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

I do hope so, but I am planning on moving to a location that does not have many IT resources. I am hoping they will look at covering this area.