Colonise Space or Perish

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by rcheshire

... and given the general decline in reproduction worldwide, increased numbers of singles etc etc, the demands on resources may decline...

I had it all wrong then. We're safe

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Technology should not be a problem I was reading a report on Space Station plan when Tranquility is decommisioned working possibly and gravity module. This could allow long term survival in space. The only other thing we need is to develop food sustainability in space, although if we could do that we may not need to leave earth.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ef=online-news

[rcheshire (Rowland)]

I had it all wrong then. We're safe

Well, only if the experts who quote this stuff are right in the first place - who knows?

One thing is for sure, I won't be around to see it. On the other hand may be we could convince Richard Branson...? Does it matter if the venture runs at a loss?

[Paddy (Patrick)]

I think we need to learn to look after this planet before we go perpetrating our thoughtless destructive ways elsewhere. Any intelligent life out there would very likely and rightly see our venturing out as the spread of a very serious pest animal.

[Jen]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

We need to get to Alpha Centauri first to see the message that was posted there over 70 years ago regarding the destruction of Earth by the Vogons.

BARRY

yep thats where im heading to Baz

[shelltree (Shelley)]

Originally Posted by Paddy

I think we need to learn to look after this planet before we go perpetrating our thoughtless destructive ways elsewhere. Any intelligent life out there would very likely and rightly see our venturing out as the spread of a very serious pest animal.

My thoughts exactly. We're slowly destroying our own world, how can we possibly expect that moving out into space will change anything besides having a new location to destroy with our greed?

[rcheshire (Rowland)]

Any intelligent life out there would very likely and rightly see our venturing out as the spread of a very serious pest animal

Yep! Long way to go to run into an intergalactic can of Mortein...!

[avandonk]

We do not have the tools to make the tools to make anything close to interstellar travel. It is mere conjecture.
If any attempt at any colonisation in our Solar System could be a reality the resources needed to support even a few humans would be far greater than the Space station thingy orbiting our Earth. One lousy pump fails and all hell breaks loose! Dunnies fail as well. When we can get even these first baby steps correct on something as simple as an orbiting Space Station maybe we can then colonise the Moon.

We have not even worked out how to stop bones degenerating due to zero gravity for extended periods of months let alone years.

As they said in 'The Castle' tell 'em they are dreaming!

Bert

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by avandonk

We do not have the tools to make the tools to make anything close to interstellar travel. It is mere conjecture.
If any attempt at any colonisation in our Solar System could be a reality the resources needed to support even a few humans would be far greater than the Space station thingy orbiting our Earth. One lousy pump fails and all hell breaks loose! Dunnies fail as well. When we can get even these first baby steps correct on something as simple as an orbiting Space Station maybe we can then colonise the Moon.

We have not even worked out how to stop bones degenerating due to zero gravity for extended periods of months let alone years.

As they said in 'The Castle' tell 'em they are dreaming!

Bert

Ok .. my 2 cents worth:

Export DNA to Europa, Enceladus and Mars! That should kick off some action.
Perhaps a good sneeze all over the next probes would do the trick.

Cheers
PS: Bert: Would you autograph my Jack Russell terra forming book for me ?
I'm finding it very useful !

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi Renorm,

Originally Posted by renormalised

It's not the technology that's the problem, Marty. It's the people.

I agree with you. You are right. However such was the case back 100yrs. People had similar attitudes. The pace was determined also by the rate of acceptance of new concepts.

Hence: The wheels of progress are not turned by cranks.
In accordance with that quote people will often think a new concept is the work of a crank. Therefore not accepting it and funding will be difficult for research.

People also resist change.
Attitudes have not changed much over the years. Behavior has. We will plod along at the rate of acceptance. Which I believe is accelerating because info is so freely available on the internet.

Cheers Marty

[psyche101]

Originally Posted by ManOnTheMoon

It would take too long to get anywhere. Alpha Centuri is the closest star to earth at just 4 light years or 23.2 trillion miles!. In the fastest spacecraft nasa has that travels at 17,500 mph it would take about 153000 earth years to go just 4 light years to reach our nearest star system! If we could travel at lightspeed it would be much quicker but only for those onboard. If you would be inside the spacecraft traveling at the speed of light, it would take you 4 years to reach Alpha Centuri. If you were on the earth waiting for that spaceship to get there and back to earth, something like 800 years would pass for you. This is because time slows down when traveling at very high speeds compared to a stationary object !!

Some estimates suggest a ballpark figure of 5% the speed of light (or 5.4×107 km/hr). So assuming a spacecraft could travel at these speeds, it would take a Project Orion-type craft approximately 85 years to travel from the Earth to Proxima Centauri.

[psyche101]

Originally Posted by Baddad

Hi All,
We don't have a lot of time on our hands. Only a few million years or if all goes well 4 billion years. Average asteroid strike rate is one every 100 million years. (the ones big enough to snuff 90% of life)

We go back 3,000 years Average man did not venture more than 12klms from home in a lifetime.
Back 300 years, 20klms
Back 100 yrs, 50klms No one more than 30,000klms (Space travel)
Back 50yrs, 500klms No one more than 100,000klms.
Back 10yrs, Could this be just the start. Moon landings.

There are so many things that are not understood. In this universe.
It was said many times. "Man would never fly"
A cannon ball will fall faster than a musket ball.
The sun is made of burning coal.
Planes can not fly faster than sound because of the "barrier"

Cheers Marty


Do we now have negative thoughts that man will never reach the stars?

I think that we have the ability to reach the stars, but not at light speed. That is one I do not believe we will attain. We are already traveling interstellar distances right now with the Voyager probes.

I see where you are coming from, but I feel there is a "wall" that you have not taken into account where light speed is concerned.

Consider drag racing. It was said the 6 second barrier could not be breached. It was. They said the same about the 5 second quarter mile. We now do 4 second passes. Can we do 3? Maybe. 2? All I could say is WOW, 1? Nope. A physical entity with a combustion engine cannot. Less than 1?

Where do you stop?

I do believe Einstein found the "wall" in E=MC2. Many have tried to break the equation over the past 100 years, yet all that has resulted is further validation, and of course, the atomic bomb. I look forward to the results from NASA's LISA Mission, further validating the famous equation.

In the examples you have provided above, someone must have realized that birds are heavier than air, and they fly, also, someone must have realized bullets break the sound barrier, so that is indeed possible. Such astute observations got us around these difficulties. That is why only empirical results are worthy.

Space travel to such distant places as Alpha Centauri is indeed possible. If one could attain .9c time dilation would make many trips quite viable for the occupants, but back home, your relatives might await centuries for your return. Essentially, that makes it a one way trip but theoretically plausible.

Just some thoughts. I like to discuss things

Cheers!

[Paddy (Patrick)]

Originally Posted by rcheshire

Yep! Long way to go to run into an intergalactic can of Mortein...!

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi Psyche 101,

I am thinking outside of the square.
Unexplained and recent discoveries have caused me to think. Dark energy, dark matter, String theory and multiple dimensions above what we are familiar with. No one has answers.

I feel that these mysteries have much to offer as they are revealed.

Don't forget. That scientists of the age when fission and fusion were unknown believed that the sun was a big lump of coal.

It is human nature to place an explanation to an unknown phenomenom.
Using only the limited knowledge of what they have at hand.
To think outside the square is what Newton, Galileo? etc did.

Pre Big Bang: There was no matter, no light, no space and no time..
Instantly it was all there.

The following perceptions are not mine. It is not possible to travel faster than Light.
Space can be bent? warped folded?
Time can be manipulated
Extra dimensions.
Suddenly I feel like we live in a time that is pre Wright Brothers as far as space travel goes. There is much to discover.

Perhaps I am a crank.
Time will tell.
Cheers marty

[psyche101]

Originally Posted by ManOnTheMoon

It would take too long to get anywhere. Alpha Centuri is the closest star to earth at just 4 light years or 23.2 trillion miles!. In the fastest spacecraft nasa has that travels at 17,500 mph it would take about 153000 earth years to go just 4 light years to reach our nearest star system! If we could travel at lightspeed it would be much quicker but only for those onboard. If you would be inside the spacecraft traveling at the speed of light, it would take you 4 years to reach Alpha Centuri. If you were on the earth waiting for that spaceship to get there and back to earth, something like 800 years would pass for you. This is because time slows down when traveling at very high speeds compared to a stationary object !!

It's doable at 10% the speed of light 40 years, and the Orion project was estimated to reach that.
Exactly, time dilation makes space travel a one way trip, but why would a species not consider the trip? One person still gets to visit a new world, perhaps colonise to keep a species alive? Even if it takes 800 years, that might still be the quickest way to know exactly what is on an exoplanet. We would still want to know wouldn't we? 800 years is better than nothing?
I think such ideals do make interstellar travel possible, just not how the Sci Fi writers in the 50's imagined it.

Here is a question that might be interesting, if anyone here on the board was offered to take such a trip, would you do it? I mean get to see a new world, but likely never your own again?

Would you go?

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Interesting, for someone that would love long space travel would be easy to take for the first generation although how will the next generation onwards feel about being stuck in space.

Interesting to see how the Mars 500 program works for at least the short/long term.

For me, happily married and would rather concentrate on earth issues before trying to lead a generational venture into space.

[psyche101]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

Interesting, for someone that would love long space travel would be easy to take for the first generation although how will the next generation onwards feel about being stuck in space.

Interesting to see how the Mars 500 program works for at least the short/long term.

For me, happily married and would rather concentrate on earth issues before trying to lead a generational venture into space.

Personally, me too

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by psyche101

It's doable at 10% the speed of light 40 years, and the Orion project was estimated to reach that.
Exactly, time dilation makes space travel a one way trip, but why would a species not consider the trip? One person still gets to visit a new world, perhaps colonise to keep a species alive? Even if it takes 800 years, that might still be the quickest way to know exactly what is on an exoplanet. We would still want to know wouldn't we? 800 years is better than nothing?
I think such ideals do make interstellar travel possible, just not how the Sci Fi writers in the 50's imagined it.

Here is a question that might be interesting, if anyone here on the board was offered to take such a trip, would you do it? I mean get to see a new world, but likely never your own again?

Would you go?

Imagine being the one to go. You go all that way, - spend all that time, - and when you get there, they have "Hey Hey it's frigging Saturday" on TV.

How peeved would you be

[psyche101]

Originally Posted by PCH

Imagine being the one to go. You go all that way, - spend all that time, - and when you get there, they have "Hey Hey it's frigging Saturday" on TV.

How peeved would you be

Be even worse if your were dinner!!

[rcheshire (Rowland)]

and when you get there, they have "Hey Hey it's frigging Saturday" on TV.

...but given time dilation would Hey Hey be on a Wednesday? Possibly, this could be the solution to getting it back to Saturday!